I agree that it is a problem on tour finding students in the majors you are interested in generally (this is not just a m/f problem, I have a D who is a STEM major). Kenyon had had a special “science tour” where you could be sure to have a science major as your tour guide – it was only offered once or twice a week, but as soon as we saw it we juggled our schedule so we could be there on that day. And yes, our tour guide was male.
Most of our tours were post-info session where we were able to split up by the major of the tour guide.
Many LACs including the one I attended have strong STEM programs(Neuroscience, Biology, Physics, etc). Despite the fact my LAC is well-known for being populated by SJWs in the parlance of those of certain political leanings, no one during my undergrad years there denigrated STEM majors.
Would have been odd as it was common for classmates to do double majors in a STEM and humanities/social science field such as a friend who did Viola/Chemistry who is now in the midst/finishing up a PhD in a Chem subfield at Harvard.
Also, contrary to popular stereotypes, there were plenty of radical left progressives who’d feel home at my LAC among the CS/Engineering graduate colleagues in the workplace and among fellow computer tech convention attendees (i.e.: Linuxworld)…including some who graduated from schools at the MIT/CMU/Caltech/Berkeley/Stanford tier.
Sometimes when I heard them discussing their politics or making their political arguments, I sometimes wondered whether I was back at my LAC rather than among colleagues having our lunchtime political debates outside the office or in the middle of a computer technology convention.
@Lindagaf wrote
This statement hits the nail on the head.
Based on all the positive CC chatter about LACs, we decided to at least look at some of them. Admittedly, we already had reservations about some of the ones on our itinerary because they did not offer engineering, and S2 would have to do a 3-2 to pursue that major. That annoying crunchy tour guide was priceless in helping us achieve clarity about not compromising on major. We will still consider LACs, but the next round of visits will only include ones that offer that major.
The bottom line is until a school offers traditional engineering (not biomedical engineering), it will be female leaning.
After we canceled the rest of our LAC itinerary we visited the Boeing factory and got a 747 jumbo-sized engineering fix. So the trip was great.
@gmtplus7 - there are a couple that have more men than women and not engineering. Well, one for sure.
S2 would prefer the combination of engineering + more women.
I guess it’s MIT or Princeton for him then!
Mudd. Like Princeton or MIT, only if he can get in.
Smith has engineering and women!
During our college tours, all but one tour guides were non-science/engineering majors and mostly female. (exception being at RPI) Applying stereotypes, I can imagine engineering major students generally won’t be interested in giving general tours to strangers.
Although all tour guides were nice and gave very good tours, DS found tour guides unrelatable and was turned off.
One male guide remarked he is not computer-savvy and talked at length about their IT support and how helpful IT department is (DS was probably thinking, if you cannot build your own PC, I’m not talking to you.)
The male guides at two LACs (one was Dance major) were leaders of LGBQT associations and DS was turned off.
I think that forgoing the general tour/Info session and visiting one of the STEM major department (if any, even biology) would have left better impressions.
@GMTplus7 Case Western
My D was a tour guide at her college but also a STEM major. After Frosh year, she said the lab work just consumed too much time to be able to continue the tours, which she loved doing.
My point is that it might be that Engineering majors might appreciate the opportunity to show off their school, but GPA curves being what they are in STEM, the hume majors have more flexibility?
As the parent of two sons who are both interested in humanities/social sciences and run screaming from STEM, I’m a little surprised by the idea that LACs would need engineering/stronger STEM to attract more male students. A bit of an over-generalization, no?
Agree @Midwestmomofboys ! My son is at St. John’s College in Santa Fe, one of the few LACs with more men than women enrolled. My daughter is looking at schools which lean much more heavily female however.
I’m not appreciating the assumption that STEM majors have tougher curves and a heavier workload, either. I attended a LAC with engineering, and it was generally agreed that the non-STEM kids had more work to do but the STEM work was more difficult. Also, in terms of grades, it was next to impossible to earn above an A- there in the social sciences. After all, what research paper or essay is ever perfect? But if all the math problems are correctly solved, or if the best student solved 10/15 and everyone else only 5/15, he gets a solid A.
One of the schools we recently visited was a tech school (two-thirds male students). Even so, all but one of the Admissions staff and student volunteers were female.
Not really. Business, Engineering, math and the physical sciences are overwhelmingly male. The first two, traditional vocational majors, are not generally offered by LACs (by their vary nature).
But I’m guessing guys are also more attracted to schools with big time D1 sports programs.
Fortunately, out of 3,000 colleges, there are types for everyone. But, St. John’s is tiny. Michigan State, not so much.
*FWIW: St. John’s is doing something terribly wrong, with a horrendous graduation rate of 40% in four years, and 50% in 6.
“Not really. Business, Engineering, math and the physical sciences are overwhelmingly male. The first two, traditional vocational majors, are not generally offered by LACs (by their vary nature).” This is sad and true-men seem better at targeting careers that allow them to make a living wage and society is more willing to pay men a living wage. Hey-a win win for men and men!
Consider also that the archetype role for males is to be a provider. What percentage of men opt to work part time or be a SAHD?
I find the inclusion of business as a major which is better academically and “more marketable” to be amusing unless the undergrad business schools one is focused on are at the very elite tier like Wharton, NYU-Stern, UMich-Ross, UVA-McIntire. Berkeley-Haas, etc.
Most of the rest of the undergrad business schools/majors were regarded by my extended family relatives* and a few former employers** in the same way as this NYTimes article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/education/edlife/edl-17business-t.html?_r=0
- With the exception of the very elite tier of undergrad b-schools, they regarded the undergrad business major as one only to be suggested to HS seniors in our family whose academic records and demonstrated interests show one who isn't intellectually inclined or serious about school. It was one step above suggesting they find a job out of HS/enlist in the armed forces.
** One financial firm I worked for had a policy of not hiring undergrad b-school majors unless they were from the very elite tier of undergrad b-schools like the ones named above after getting burned by too many past b-school graduates from lower-tiered programs who demonstrated serious issues with written communication and basic arithmetic/math skills which caused embarrassment with senior executives and clients. On the other hand, the Arts & Sciences majors from the very same institutions weren’t regarded with this degree of skepticism by that firm’s senior hiring managers.