Gender imbalance at LACs

Here are some interesting statistics from the NEA
http://www.nea.org/home/44609.htm


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Girls outperform boys in grades and homework at all levels. (NCES)

Boys comprise 67 percent of all special education students. Almost 80 percent of these are Black and Hispanic males. (USDOE and Schott Foundation Report)

Boys are five times more likely than girls to be classified as hyperactive and are 30 percent more likely to flunk or drop out of school. (National Center for Education Statistics)

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this:

“Boys are five times more likely than girls to be classified as hyperactive…” Later, when they are running companies, they are reclassified as Type A or assertive or “alpha Male”.

I guess the ones that make it through college have a great chance for success!

@OHMomof2 Yes! That is exactly what I am advocating the US study as I believe this shouldn’t be ignored!

In the U.S., a powerful network of women’s groups works ceaselessly to protect and promote what it sees as female interest. But there is no counterpart working for boys—they are on their own. This contrasts dramatically with constructive, problem-solving approach of education leaders and government officials in Great Britain, Canada, and Australia. The British have their parliamentary “toolkit of effective practices” for educating boys—

“I think the idea that boys can’t sit still is a recent, cultural (US) pattern. I never saw this observation in my early years of teaching. I have not seen it or heard it in East Asia. If it was true, then it would have affected boys’ education through out history, and they have been expected to sit in rows of chairs for centuries. Our classroom design predates girls’ education.”

@mamalion I completely agree with this. This is new – boys sat still in elementary school classrooms for a long time. I think it may be true that outside of school, many boys (and many children generally) get less unstructured outdoors play.

@runswimyoga Wow. Do you not realize that women were actually excluded – as in not allowed – in many schools and workplaces for many years? It takes work to overcome that. Those groups came into existence because of that. Men in general and white men in particular got a boost – for many years – no one w/ even a passing knowledge of history can deny that.

If you think that boys are in someway systematically excluded, than by all means, start an organization and do the work. That’s what every other marginalized population had to do.

@LionsMum Sorry to confuse you - it was a quote from this article to make a case for studying this situation http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/09/how-to-make-school-better-for-boys/279635/
I should have referenced that.

But there are other articles that take issue with what you are talking about … gender inequality in education being a myth now (not that it was a myth then ) saying in fact reality is the opposite

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/05/the-war-against-boys/304659/

this is just food for thought…

Going to fall all my chair laughing after the HUNDREDS of years when women had no access to a college education at all. Reminds me of what my mom used to say when I said that in addition to Mother’s Day, there should be a Children’s Day. She said, “Every day is children’s day”. Males had EVERY advantage until about 40 years ago… and now that women are being provided with the same opportunities, they are succeeding very well. In spite of the mistaken attitude that they couldn’t vote, couldn’t work after marriage, couldn’t be successful professionals, etc. I am not sympathetic. What we are talking about on this thread is that men are now getting a break in admissions to college, just for being men. I don’t have an issue with that, as I think a balanced and diverse student body is a good thing. But it takes nerve to say “they are on their own” about men. Look at the metrics for US CEOs, Presidents & VPs (so far, ALL male) and the makeup of the House and Senate. To say there is no one in the court of males is laughable – they still hold most of the positions of power.

On another topic, I think the demise of recess has been a factor in boys having a harder time in school. Kids, but especially boys, NEED time to run, play, let off steam outside the classroom. We had recess twice a day when I was a kid. Staring in 2001 when No Child Left Behind was implemented, schools started cutting down and in some cases eliminating recess.

I am just advocating the US study what is going on with boys in education from an early age up- because in my opinion it has broad societal implications- more than schools lowering their standards to achieve an even ratio of girls boys…

There are more males incarcerated in the US than ever before …with the number of African American males incarcerated at all time high … interesting to me that of the higher number of males in special ed 80% are hispanic or African American…

In my own mind I theorize that if we are more effective in keeping boys in school (and interested in education) then we have a better chance to lower incarceration rates… this is where I am coming from. I am not trying to minimize what women in the past experienced …

@runswimyoga There isn’t much to study the answers are obvious. Males in public high school do not get the same attention girls do. And with regard to African American boys, 75% are born to a single mother, which is much harder on boys than on girls born to a single mother. White children being born to single mothers has risen substantially, as well.

Boys do better on tests but not grade-wise largely because the misbehave more in school. This not an excuse it’s just reality. More needs to be done in terms of discipline.

Over the past several decades more resources have been focused on girls but not boys. Fact.

So when you have so many boys without a father and combine it with a shift in resources and lack of attention, you get the current situation.

The two most underrepresented demographics in college are black males and hispanic males. No surprise.

Both of my boys went to all boys, Catholic school. Jacket and tie everyday, practice till 630 and community service Saturday and Sunday morning.

There are several good books on this topic.

Agreed. Also, the idea that boys were naturally more rowdy and such behaviors should be accounted for in teaching beyond enforcing strict discipline on students who couldn’t stay seated, stay quiet when not called upon, or even fidgeted would have been considered absurd.

Especially if we’re talking Catholic schools or private schools like them which several dozen older neighbors who were alums of such schools recounted how any slight infractions of that sort would have earned them a rap on the knuckles or the palms of their hands with a ruler at the very minimum.

Even by the '80s when such physical discipline was gone even from Catholic schools, some were still very strict about expecting all students…including boys to sit still at their desks even at 5-6 years old.

A good illustration of this was how I and another older neighborhood boy 8 years earlier were both expelled a few weeks into the year as 5 year old first graders from one Catholic School in the '80’s because we were in the words of the principal “too rambunctious” because he fidgeted in his seat and I couldn’t always sit still.

Also, many fathers even during my '80s/early '90s childhood formerly working-class NYC neighborhood wouldn’t have tolerated such behavior in their own sons and would scold and discipline them accordingly.

Especially one classmate whose father was a 20+ year retired Marine veteran who served in Vietnam and did a stint as a drill sergeant at Parris Island. He had exceedingly high expectations of discipline/behavior in his son which extended to organizing his room in such a manner it came eerily close to the extremely stringent SAMI room inspections one older cousin recounted from his time at a FSA. Keep in mind that his son was ~8 years old at the time.

When his son fell short, he wouldn’t hesitate to treat him as a recalcitrant Marine recruit at Marine boot camp. This included yelling at him and making him do pushups and “PT him to death” type exercises in a local public park whenever he was notified about his son’s misbehavior in school. He was also a “Tiger dad” in a sense except his obsession wasn’t Ivies, but getting his son admitted to Annapolis so he can have that perceived cachet of being an Annapolis Marine.

When fellow military veterans and older adults he respected like my father tried getting him to let up, he was polite, but insisted this strict level of discipline was necessary for the plan he had for his son.

When my older boy started at the Q&A it was asked why are sports so important in this school. The LaSallian brother responded that boys that are tired from sports at the end of the day are more attentive and better behaved the next day. He also said that as schools phased out recess and reduced sports attention and disciplinary problems always increased.

@OnTheBubble

While both Catholic Schools I attended in the '80s offered recess, it was limited to ~30 minutes after lunch. Not much in way of team sports or spending much time playing outside, especially considering doing so was considered very risky back then due to the high crime rate* in the neighborhood back then.

One consolation was we got out ~2:30 pm, but we had to start ~7:30 am each morning. We started and ended earlier than the local public schools.

  • This was the tail-end of the NYC high crime era from the late '60s till the early '90s.

Do you have evidence of this (studies)? It doesn’t make sense to me – I think there have been recent studies showing boys STILL get called on more than girls do. And our anecdotal experience was that the calculus teacher at our D’s HS gave the boys a “secret” opportunity to study extra over the summer and skip up to a new math level when they decided to offer another course, and no girls were offered the chance – my D is a physics major now at a top college, and it still rankles her that the teacher picked all boys for the math advancement program. Boys aren’t getting less attention. They may not be responding to it… but they are getting it.

Anyone else find it ironic that at the same time some schools are cutting out recess, there is more and more focus on childhood obesity and the forbidding of treats at school?

My daughter is at a school that is 25% female, 75% male. If you want to find men, go where they are - the tech schools and the service academies.

The first time I saw a picture of the RA’s I thought “Hey, that’s not fair, they hire 3 boys for boys every girl.” Doh, they have many more male students! Even with the ratio being off by so much, the women on campus see to have their share of leadership roles. The president of D’s sorority was also president of the mechanical engineering fraternity and several other sisters are in student government and leading other campus clubs and honor societies.

Does anyone have stats on recess? My kids’ schools had it. Every day. Maybe 2x a day for younger kids. (They also say the Pledge of Allegiance and you’d think no school did that anymore from reading certain types of web sites…)

@runswimyoga, there are a lot—and I do mean a serious lot—of studies on the differential achievement of boys and girls in early, primary, secondary, and postsecondary education in the United States. They all come to the same conclusion about one thing: There are differential outcomes. That’s nothing a simple run through the demographic statistics couldn’t give you, however.

Where they differ is on the reasons for the disparities. You’re presenting a set of (vague) reasons for them, but the studies that are out there don’t really back them up, to the extent that they’re actually testable claims. What they have generally found is that there really isn’t anything firm that can be pointed to as the cause, leading many (including me, as an informed outsider) to the conclusion that its actually a constellation of reasons, and that in fact the reasons might not be the same in all communities and circumstances.

So your call for studies on the differential outcomes between boys and girls is unnecessary, because it’s already being done.

Here is a link to a newsletter on recess. The box on the right on page one has some statistics:

https://www.naeyc.org/files/yc/file/200909/On%20Our%20Minds%20909.pdf

Thanks @intparent .

Not terrible (93% do have recess and 85% have more than 15 minutes of it?), but also 10 years ago. Maybe there’ve been further cuts?

It also says this:

I have heard that the Common Core may cut push schools toward cutting recess further.