<p>Thanks for the correction mhmm. It certainly seems to me that bathroom designations shouldn’t be subject to a dorm “vote” and the college should have clear policies in place to prevent one group being marginalized as is the case here as presented by the OP.</p>
<p>I had gender neutral bathrooms back in the 1970s, and no one made a big deal of it, so it seems a bit weird to me that this still an issue. I think they work fine as long as there are stalls and shower curtains or doors. I think most students wore bathrobes or pajamas while taking care of business there. People on a floor tended to treat each other more like siblings than potential boy and girlfriends. So that part of me wants to tell the OP’s son to get over it.</p>
<p>That said, this particular situation seems problematic. One because it seems patently unfair for girls to have a single sex bathroom available to them while the boys don’t. And two because some girls are misbehaving.</p>
<p>I think it’s for the son to try to take care of the problem. When girls harass him he needs to stand up for himself and tell them in no uncertain terms that they are making him uncomfortable and that they will be reported if they don’t stop. Harassment goes both ways. I’d also get together with the boy who was shouted down and talk to the RA and see if he/she can help. I don’t see this as a GLBT issue particularly, though I do think that community was helped by gender neutral bathrooms.</p>
<p>I dislike the idea of gender neutral bathrooms. The hygiene of many college aged males is sub par.</p>
<p>mhmm (edited to clarify: that is to say, in response to the user called “mhmm” above), you don’t quite have it right. Many (most, I’d venture) states have questionable laws about bathroom access, especially for people who haven’t had the opportunity to legally change their gender markers, as most 18-22 year olds have not. For students who are male-to-female or female-to-male, it could be illegal to use the bathroom they prefer and dangerous to use the bathroom that they are legally “supposed” to use. Furthermore, some transgender people don’t align themselves with either male or female. I had the opportunity to do an event last year where you used only gender-neutral public facilities for a month and it was exhaustingly difficult and uncomfortable. </p>
<p>I’m on a floor with a bathroom that male guests are allowed to use (alternating floors have female-and-student bathrooms). It’s a little weird at first, but, frankly, the more you do it the less uncomfortable it is. It sounds like the majority of the students there had a strong preference and they took their vote. </p>
<p>I’ve skimmed the thread and it sounds like there are harassment problems? Those should be addressed independently, through an RA or another resource. It sounds like that’s an issue between students as opposed to bathroom access based on gender, though. JMO.</p>
<p>College is great time for kids to figure out how to effect their environment . . . meaning that is up to the OP’s child to figure out how to deal with the issue in his community. Are there others who feel as he do? Is there a way to get a males only bathroom somewhere else in the dorm? What does a student do when democracy bumps into individual rights? Is there a role for the campus-wide housing office to play?</p>
<p>This is similar to difficulties that students have with troublesome roommates . . . part of what we all learn in college is how to deal with others as autonomous individuals.</p>
<p>This is a huge teaching/learning moment for the students . . . not for the parents.</p>
<p>P.S. The “mean girl” harassment is a separate issue that also needs ot be addressed w/o reference to gender neutral bathrooms.</p>
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<p>The gender bias here really amazes me! Honestly, if it were a women subjected to sexual harassment, no one would say, “Just stand up for yourself!” It’s an unacceptable situation that every individual should be protected from, regardless of that individual’s level of assertiveness. Yes, some people would never tolerate harassment . . . but there are others (both men and women) who, for whatever reason, aren’t comfortable confronting the person(s) doing the harassing. They still have a right to be safe from that kind of behavior.</p>
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<p>How bad would this situation have to be for you to decide that it’s no longer a “teaching moment,” but a violation of the student’s rights, instead? As so many others on this thread have already noted, this young man is entitled to some privacy, and if he isn’t comfortable asserting himself, then it’s absolutely appropriate for his parents to step in!</p>
<p>There are all sorts of situations that could arise on campus that are unfair, and it would be wonderful if all the affected students had the assertiveness to stand up and object, but that won’t always happen. Imagine, for example, a teacher who only gives A’s to female students. Sure, the male students in the class should speak up . . . but at some point, if parents are paying $65k/year for their kid’s education, then they are absolutely within their rights to say, “Hey, this is not what we agreed to when our son enrolled here!”</p>
<p>It seems as though this issue has risen beyond the level of the kids on this floor to handle. There are disagreements and definitely poor behavior - if not outright harassment - in the bathrooms themselves. I would think it would be time for the OP’s son to contact the dean of residential life (or similar for his particular school) to discuss the issues here; I think this has gone beyond the RA as well. Would hope that the Dean could convene a dorm meeting to discuss all the concerns of the residents in a safe and open manner.</p>
<p>Thanks for your thoughts, dodgersmom and siemom!</p>
<p>I came across these OSHA guidelines regarding bathroom designations, which I’m sure do not apply to college students. (Someone please correct me if I’m wrong!) But it’s interesting to see what the law is in the workplace. The provision that gender neutral bathrooms must be single-person and lock from the inside makes a great deal of sense to me.</p>
<p>(I think everyone would feel frustration over the percentage recommendations for bathroom allocation, as we’ve all suffered, or seen women suffering, from long bathroom lines in public! The guidelines were probably written with privacy and security in mind, as opposed to access, per se.)</p>
<p>Gender Segregated Facilities
OSHA regulations require that employers provide gender-segregated facilities for all of their employees. Bathrooms must be designated as being for male or female use. An allowance is provided for single-person bathrooms, which can be used by both sexes, but the door must lock from the inside.</p>
<p>Allocation of Bathroom Facilities
The minimum standard for bathroom facilities states the number of water closets that a company must provide. However, the company must also consider the allocation of these bathrooms by gender. The number of bathrooms designated for men and women is determined by the number of employees of that sex at the company. For example, a company that employed 85 percent men would need to have 85 percent of their toilet facilities available to men, while a company that was equally split between men and women would need to provide an equal number of bathrooms for both genders.</p>
<p>Read more: OSHA Regulations on Bathroom Availabilty | eHow.com [OSHA</a> Regulations on Bathroom Availabilty | eHow.com](<a href=“http://www.ehow.com/list_6812424_osha-regulations-bathroom-availabilty.html#ixzz27yUpFrcH]OSHA”>http://www.ehow.com/list_6812424_osha-regulations-bathroom-availabilty.html#ixzz27yUpFrcH)</p>
<p>I think that the situation is patently unfair, particularly in light of the fact that there are three bathrooms, making a fair solution extremely easy to achieve. Devising a system where the majority can vote to remove the rights of the minority is a very poor idea…which is one of the reasons why our government has checks and balances. If demagogues manage to pass laws that strip rights from a group of individuals, the courts are supposed to step in and find those laws unconstitutional. In this particular instance, the RA and potentially whoever is in charge of residential life needs to step in.</p>
<p>The fact that a boy was shouted down with BS about his being an “oppressor” shows that some of the females on this hall need a sharp lesson in civility and mutual respect. As for those who say that a shy 18-yr-old boy should just speak up and tell some aggressive female to back off…really? You really think that his reputation as a male would survive that? Not for one second would the parents of girls on CC put up with this if it were their D and the roles were reversed. There would be immediate cries to run to the dean, bypass the RA, suspend the boy, etc.</p>
<p>I am a great believer in kids trying to handle things themselves. I think the parent’s ideal role should be as a coach and motivator. So if it were my kid, I would counsel him to get the other boy who was shouted down, and anyone who agrees with them–some of whom might be fair-minded females–and go to the RA. The RA has to know that shouting people down when they simply express a desire for privacy in the bathroom is not acceptable behavior. If the RA is not able to deal with it, the boys should make it clear to him or her that they intend to go to the next step up in the hierarchy, and do so. (One would hope that the RA would do so him/herself, if the majority would not see reason.)</p>
<p>I really don’t think it makes any difference who is paying what. A student with a full ride grant has as much right to basic privacy in the bathroom as a student whose parents donated the $$ to build the dorm.</p>
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<p>Of course they are within their rights. But is it the wise course of action?</p>
<p>Both emeraldkitty and consolation, as well as siemom, offered ways for the OP to counsel her son on handling the situation that would be effective, and much better for the young man in the long run.<br>
And you are wrong to think many of us wouldn’t counsel our young women to do the same thing. I have one of each gender, and I want them both to try to handle their own problems. If they have done what they can, and want parental help, then we’d get involved. Cooler heads usually prevail.</p>
<p>Another voice to say that in the mid-70s, when I was in college, we had gender-neutral bathrooms, and I never experienced any problems with it and neither did anyone else I knew. Some people felt conflicted about it in theory, but in practice there just weren’t any issues. Almost everyone had grown up sharing bathrooms with different-sex siblings and/or parents, and sharing the bathroom in college was really no different. Less stressful, actually – people were far more considerate of each other than siblings often are.</p>
<p>Also, what the heck is the OP talking about with “privacy”? Privacy doesn’t have anything to do with gender. If ten boys are sharing an all-male bathroom, none of them is going to have any more privacy than if the bathroom were being shared by four boys and six girls.</p>
<p>This is a 100% phony issue. It is not new at all, and there is no reason to whine about it. Men and women have shared bathrooms without incident in college dorms for decades – hundreds of thousands of people, with no record whatsoever of physical or psychic damage as a result. Parents complaining will be dismissed as cranks, and rightly so.</p>
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<p>Males have no choice but to use “gender-neutral” bathrooms. Females have the choice of using the “gender-neutral” bathrooms or using female-only bathrooms. </p>
<p>You’re right, there’s no inequality there…</p>
<p>His first year, DS lived in a dorm with one (huge) bathroom on each floor. They were designated as single sex, and with a unanimous vote, could become coed. The vote failed and the bathroom on his floor was for girls, so he ended up having to go to another floor the whole year. I’m not sure why some people’s desire for privacy, or whatever, trumps the considerable inconvenience to those who were not lucky enough to be on the floor with the right gendered bathroom. I thought that at at the least, they should have switched the bathrooms around midyear.</p>
<p>But this was a brand new dorm–it seems like it would have been easy enough to design it with two smaller bathrooms instead of the one huge one. </p>
<p>I lived in a female dorm–but guys fequently spent the night and so our bathrooms might has well have been coed. Other than surprise the first time I encountered a guy in there, I don’t remember this being a big deal at all.</p>
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<p>Then all 3 bathrooms on the floor would be coed, wouldn’t they? </p>
<p>I am the mother of 3 sons, and it seems that the pendulum has swung too far. Females deserve the same rights as males, and no more. You cannot have it both ways. (Having female-only bathroom is acceptable, but male-only is not?)</p>
<p>I think it’s funny too that earlier it was mentioned that a female would go into a male restroom if the female lines were too long and that is considered “acceptable.” But if a male were to walk into a female restroom in a public place, he’d probably be arrested for “being a pervert.” </p>
<p>There’s no double-standard whatsoever…</p>
<p>I agree that all the bathrooms should be gender neutral, unless they want to have one female, one male & one neutral - which seems silly because then there would be nitpicking about other amenities.</p>
<p>What does the RA say?</p>
<p>Listening to those who say they had gender neutral bathrooms 40 years ago and it didn’t bother them, so it should work out fine for everyone today, makes me cringe a bit. Reminds me of those people who think that since they got into Harvard 40 years ago and it was pretty easy, your smart kid should have no problem getting in today. Really?</p>
<p>Consolation’s post #89 is spot on. Every word. Especially the part about how to get the RA to do their job.</p>
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<p>I assume you’re alluding to the idea that if a guy isn’t drooling over every female in sight, “he must be gay”. (Which also plays into the ridiculous stereotype that gay guys “aren’t REAL males”, but that’s another story.) </p>
<p>But look . . . that is why the OP’s son is having problems to begin with. Because the girls have bought into that stereotype and probably think they are “complimenting” the kid, not making him very uncomfortable. They are sexually harassing him, to be blunt. That, not gender neutral bathrooms, seems to be the problem here.</p>
<p>Whether someone is male or female, it’s definitely hard to speak up when other people will feel you’re “making a fuss about nothing” or “rocking the boat”. And I am not saying that the OP’s son is obligated to speak up. But I do think that if he chooses to speak up, it will help not only him, but a lot of other guys, in the long run. Guys are not mindless sex machines who welcome any and all staring eyes (as long as they’re female); there is nothing shameful about saying, “I am not comfortable with your behavior.” Some guy has to speak up if this silly stereotype is ever going to change.</p>
<p>To get upset about the inequality here, you have to think the inequality matters. I don’t. I don’t know why the women get to have a women-only bathroom, but I don’t particularly care if the men don’t get a men-only bathroom, because it really doesn’t matter that much.</p>
<p>And, in any event, I’m not convinced there is actual inequality. What I took from the OP is that there is a default rule that bathrooms are gender-neutral, and some sort of democratic process to change the default. The democratic process produced one women-only bathroom, perhaps because lots more women than men cared about having a same-sex bathroom. That’s not inequality. Dumb, perhaps, but not an offense against justice.</p>
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<p>I think that some of us are sharing that we had an uneventful experience with gender-neutral shared bathrooms decades ago to point out that it can work out if people behave appropriately. I wouldn’t argue that this young man should just get over his objections; it sounds like his floormates aren’t behaving appropriately. On the other hand, he might be making some people uncomfortable by shaving shirtless–perhaps he should cover up. A robe, or a t-shirt that he keeps in the bathroom for that purpose, as suggested, would be suitable. Even in an all-women bathroom, there might be someone who’d prefer to brush her teeth naked, but wears a robe because she doesn’t want to make others uncomfortable. Shared bathroom situations, whether single-gender or gender-neutral, do require some compromises all around.</p>
<p>It sounds like the women on this floor are a challenging bunch. Getting one of the bathrooms designated as a men’s bathroom might help in this particular situation. However, it’s possible the young man may have found the bathroom arrangements tolerable if he’d been on a different floor. But he should not have to put up with this behavior or learn to live with it, nor do I think it should be entirely up to him to handle it individually with the floormates in question. If his RA isn’t handling it, is there someone who supervises the RA? A professional on the residence life staff?</p>