Georgetown's Decline?

Colleges & Universities A-Z Georgetown University
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<p>On a recent visit to Georgetown I picked up a student paper and was struck by the doom and gloom found throughout its pages. Complaints about the awful library, concerns regarding the quality of its science teaching and the potential delay in building a new science building, and most distressing, a description of how Georgetown uses sophomores as Teaching Assistants for introductory economics classes. Apparently there aren't enough econ grad students to meet the needs of Economics Profs so they've decided to use the best students from the prior year's freshman econ classes to act as TAs once they become sophomores. </p>

<p>Having a student that is one year ahead of you, who probably has limited knowledge of the subject being taught, serving as a leader of class discussions and possibly contributing to grading decisions is absurd. Maybe LACs really are the only place where you can actually interact with teachers anymore. The big U profs and even the grad students are apparently to busy to deal with undergrads.</p>

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<p>OUCH! This post has me scurrying to the website to find online copies of Georgetown’s school newspapers.</p>

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<p>Here’s the link.
[Decent</a> Econ TAs Are in Short Supply and High Demand | The Hoya](<a href=“http://www.thehoya.com/node/16664]Decent”>http://www.thehoya.com/node/16664)</p>

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<p>Yes, I see it as problematic. However… </p>

<p>As a journalist, I take issue with an editorial not coming to bear with any sources other than “students we’ve spoken with.” No quotes from professors or TA’s about the process? Not even a “no comment” is a tad suspect. However, this is not to say the complaints are not accurate or justified. As it is, it seems this is not a new problem that can find blame in the economics of the University but of a educational requirement of introductory courses that are intending to serve a far greater number of students than can be accommodated by the limited faculty.</p>

<p>While I may have missed a reference to sophomores teaching freshman, I do think there is a huge difference between people who can teach and people who get the A. Sometimes they are one and the same, but more often than not they arent even close.</p>

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<p>I wouldn’t be too concerned. All the TA’s last semester in micro that I know of were grad students with maybe one or two exceptions. You could go to extra tutoring taught by sophomores, who were often very helpful. The econ TA’s aren’t perfect but if you do the right research you can find a good one, as in you aren’t assigned someone and stuck. They are there to go over the homework not teach the material anyway. Econ recitation isn’t the same as other classes. 95% of the material is covered in class, the other 5% is in recitation like if you have practical problems with the homework. I had a lot of friends that never went to their recitation and did fine. Econ at Georgetown is tough for a lot of reasons but both my professors have been great (levinson and diba). As long as you aren’t afraid to try a few sections your TA won’t be a problem. The Hoya has a tendency to be a bit reactionary anyway. Try reading the Voice as well. </p>

<p>O and yes the library is ugly. We all try to embrace it for what it is, a Vietnam memorial built during the functionalist architecture movement and therefore not allowed to be torn down. Sometimes its very busy but there are a lot of great places on campus to study.</p>

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<p>Thanks. It’s helpful to get a different perspective. Especially when it’s from a current student with firsthand experience in the Econ department. Much appreciated.</p>

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<p>Yes, it is nice to see some insight from a current student. Also, the thought came to me, if (theoretically based on the OP’s title thread) Georgetown is really in a decline and is still considered a consistent top 25 school in the nation, doesn’t that make it more impressive?</p>

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<p>Since December, I have read The Hoya (the main newspaper) on virtually a daily basis. Sometimes, one does get the impression that the student writers are constantly complaining or, as the OP called it, “dooming and glooming.” However, I do not get the impression that students are dissatisfied. Instead, I think that the students are constantly looking for ways to make their university even better, so they constantly bring up their university’s problems. Any current students have thoughts on that?</p>

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<p>The Hoya is well known for having the tendency of conflating journalism with complaining. They fancy themselves muckrackers, I guess, but in many cases it just comes across as nitpicking and whining. Especially the editorials, which oftentimes seek to make mountains out of anthills. I have been and continue to be a big booster of student journalism, but this is a well-known tendency. This isn’t to say that there aren’t things that are wrong, could be improved, need to be changed, etc. but sometimes it goes a bit astray, in my opinion.</p>

<p>As for econ TAs, all the ones I had were graduate students, so this was news to me, in some respects. However, in all honesty, the material presented in the very lowest level introductory classes, where this apparently occurs, is sufficiently basic that I have no problem imagining a sophomore being qualified to act as a TA.</p>

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<p>As others have said, The Hoya can often fall prey to a bit of sensationalism.</p>

<p>Right now I have a Macro Econ TA who’s a junior (he taught as a sophomore). I’ll admit, when asked about Economics that extend beyond whatever we’re studying, his answers are a bit suspect. But really, a lot of what we’re doing in recitations isn’t rocket science - calculating the CPI, defining what makes up GDP, etc. It’s not especially easy work, but if you know it, you know it. My professor always stays for questions after class anyway, so it’s not like you don’t have other resources.</p>

<p>And it’s important to note that Econ is probably the only department I’m aware of that has to rely on undergrads to TA. While it may be a sub-optimal configuration, it’s only one department, in only a handful of introductory level classes, for only some sections, with high-achieving undergrads. You could do a lot worse.</p>

<p>As to your other concerns:</p>

<p>Yes, the library is ugly. Doesn’t mean the books inside are less useful, or the databases less accessible. (Also: they’re currently drawing up plans to renovate and/or expand the library. The exterior will still be mostly the same though)</p>

<p>Re: Science Classes: I have a lot of friends who are science majors and/or pre-med, and I really haven’t heard any complaints about the teaching. The only complaints I’ve heard are that it’s really hard and time-consuming - but you’re going to get that anywhere for pre-med.</p>

<p>If you wold like to see what student concerns are, seeing the platform of the candidates running for president might be helpful: [GUSA</a> Hopefuls Vie for Pres., VP | The Hoya](<a href=“http://www.thehoya.com/node/17901]GUSA”>http://www.thehoya.com/node/17901) . Most complaints are, relatively speaking, minor. More wireless hotspots. Better transportation to basketball games. More recycling.</p>

<p>That being said, a few concerns are a bit more substantial. Safety pops up more than once. On face, this concern looks rather discouraging. Personally, I don’t think safety is really much of a concern, and I’ve never felt unsafe around here, but I recognize others may not feel the same way. However, the main issue that seems to be of concern is expanding saferides coverage. This is a service that is used to pick up students late at night from areas somewhere around Georgetown, but not on campus. I think the fact that people’s main concern about safety is off-campus says something. </p>

<p>The other substantial concern is the career center. More than one person mentioned expanding it. While I disagree with those that say the career center needs to do a better job of helping students find out where they want to go in life (to me, this seems one of it’s strengths), the criticism that it focuses a bit much on MSB is widely held and not unjustified. It’s true that a large proportion of the recruiters that come to campus represent the financial industry. But in terms of the counseling they offer, they have specialists in multiple disciplines, and the best practices of a job search don’t vary all that much from field to field (that is, you should have a good resume whether you work in politics or business, even if the format of the resume differs slightly), and I haven’t had any complaints with the career center in my search for a non-business internship.</p>

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<p>Didn’t read every post in this thread… and feel free to disagree, but its kind known that the Hoya likes being negative (or is just plain negative in general)…</p>

<p>FYI, they’ve been fighting for their independence and the name “Hoya” from the school for ages, so its not surprising if they are a little bitter…</p>

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<p>“the criticism that it focuses a bit much on MSB is widely held and not unjustified”</p>

<p>Financial services is the top employer for the MSB, SFS, and COL (3rd for NHS), so its not surprising if a lot of investment banks come on campus… Georgetown is known for feeding into Wall Street…</p>

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<p>To build on sophomore’s point, the financial services sector (what’s left of it, anyway, heh) does by far the most on-campus recruiting on any industry. There’s not that many companies, other than consulting firms, that are willing to pay schools money in order to hold recruiting events on campus, including numerous on-campus interviews.</p>

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<p>I Wall Street still actively recruiting in this climate?</p>

<p>I don’t think that Georgetown is going under as the OP might claim. Although, the web 1.0 website and the lackluster PR materials sent out certainly don’t do anything to help me feel better about this school.</p>

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<p>Just curious, which PR materials are you referring to? The Undergraduate Prospectus?</p>

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<p>Try looking at each college’s individual website. They are much better managed. [Edmund</a> A. Walsh School of Foreign Service - Georgetown University](<a href=“http://sfs.georgetown.edu/]Edmund”>http://sfs.georgetown.edu/)
[Georgetown</a> College - Georgetown University](<a href=“http://college.georgetown.edu/]Georgetown”>http://college.georgetown.edu/)
[Georgetown</a> University Nursing and Health Studies](<a href=“http://snhs.georgetown.edu/]Georgetown”>http://snhs.georgetown.edu/)
[McDonough</a> School of Business - Home Page](<a href=“http://msb.georgetown.edu/]McDonough”>http://msb.georgetown.edu/)</p>

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<p>MSB’s website needs to be updated, but it will be soon… according to the dean’s office, and yes please take a look at individual school’s website, not the main Georgetown website</p>

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<p>When S and I visited in the summer, the library was unspeakably dirty. The windows (and there are many) were coated with grime. Unpardonable, really. In contrast, when we visited another college (across the river, a state school) we saw a beautiful modern building that proclaimed “this place is for learning”. The fact that sophomores (given the tuition Georgetown charges) are teaching freshman seems ridiculous.</p>

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<p>well you might also find it ridiculous that I am teaching my AP economics teacher economics. Individual cases (especially at a top school) may break convention. I would prefer to hear a student teach than a professor profess.</p>

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<p>Sophomores teach freshmen?!</p>

<p>Which class is this? Select top Sophomores may be TAs, but that’s not the same thing…</p>

<p>Lau admittedly is not that best place, but there’s Leavy and Healy, the Bioethics library, Riggs (though closed all the time), and Bloomer Library that you can study…</p>