Getting in a prestigious music school for a double degree with a music major...

College Majors Music Major
1

So I’m sure this question has already been asked many many many times, but anyways, here goes…
So first off, my current dream is to be accepted into a prestigious music university in a double major: a music major for Violin performance, along with either a computer science or kinesiology (if I end up deciding that computer science may be too much strain) major. I don’t worry too much about the stress, I am a good student and get good grades with average in the 90s, have many interests and deals with a lot of stress all the time.

That aside, I started violin kind of early with private instruction, but unfortunately not as early as all those child prodigies. I started at the age of 8 years old, and am now 17. The problem is that when I started, I “wasted” 2 precious years with violin teachers with lower standards, and not many expectations. I did not do any competitions, however I did play in many concerts. Then, I started studying with a good teacher for a year, and got more serious. Then she moved away and I kept taking lessons online with her (not as good as physical, but it still worked at that level). Meanwhile, I have done many regional competitions every year and always placed first (though it was only for RCM grades 3-6). When it got more advanced in RCM grade 6,7,8, I still placed pretty well, some ups and downs, but mostly at least in the top 3. Last year, as I was getting more advanced, I found myself new very good and respectable teachers and I was able to get to provincial level competition for grade 8 and did decent with a 3rd place. I am also part of the community youth orchestra, and school string ensemble, and have played with different people and instruments in duets.

Though I certainly do not consider myself a prodigy, I have been told I have talent, and that on the musical side, my playing is unique and passionate. I am now finishing RCM grade 9 going into grade 10, and am graduating high school in June 2017. There are so many things I wished I had time to do, like auditioning for the national youth orchestra, going for the Canadian national music competition and auditioning for a solo in my orchestra with a grade 10 RCM repertoire, but I am not sure if I will have time. My technique, sight reading, theory/harmony and knowledge in general is lacking behind and I am working very hard to make up for it right now. I am expecting to finish all my theory/harmony for grade 10 before I graduate school of course.

By prestigious music universities, I mean Cleveland, Jacob’s, Peabody or Oberlin, and that is my worry, I haven’t done any national competitions yet, and I will not have time to get my technique up to ARCT. Is it possible to get into such prestigious universities with only grade 10 concerto pieces such as Bruch/Kabalevski, passion for music and a good musical sense? The obvious better approach would be to take a gap year to prepare, however I’d like to avoid that as much as possible. I really want to move out, and I will also have my academics to worry about to get into my second degree, and I just don’t know how it’s going to turn out for a gap year… Anyhow, I really don’t want to waste any more time than I already have, I really want to be able to make it.
Oh how I wished I started violin earlier and made better choices…

Anyways, thanks for reading this far, you can give me your honest cruel opinion, encouragements, crush my dreams or whatever, as long as you give me valuable and useful advice.
Thanks!

2

It’s going to be impossible for anyone on this board to asses the level at which you play your repertoire. Looks like you are Canadian - can you get an assessment from a college/conservatory instructor there? What does your teacher say? Orchestra director any help?

The RCM system/syllabus is not typically used here in the US. Many instructors here will not be familiar with the particulars, so speaking in these terms may not have much meaning for them.

As I think you guess, Bruch would be one of the lower level concertos used in top rank US conservatory/college auditions. This is often among the first major concertos US students play - not uncommon to hear it played very well as early as middle school. But, as I said above, it is impossible to tell how well you play this. A wonderful performance of Bruch demonstrating technical and musical mastery as well as good solo Bach (which will also be required in conservatory auditions) and a strong technical etude (Paganini, Wieniawski, etc) might be enough for consideration for some studios. In my opinion, Kabalevsky is not likely to impress an auditioner - to me, choosing that concerto would indicate you had not reached the “major” concerto level of study and playing.

If possible, you should have a lesson with an instructor at Oberlin or Peabody or Jacobs and ask about your chances. Your time is getting short, if I’m reading you correctly - senior year coming up? Check all the audition requirements for the schools you are interested in. You will need to submit pre-screen recordings by December for most.

Also, winning national competitions is not necessary for admittance to the schools you mention - or any schools for that matter. Auditioners may not even know your accomplishments. You will be judged on the playing at your audition.

You should also consider, if you know that you are currently behind technically, how will that be caught up while working on a double degree? There will be many more advanced students than you entering who are not doubling majoring. Will you have enough time to work? Practicing 4 - 6 hours most days is not unusual in conservatories, some students do more than that.

Good luck to you. I admire the self-assessment and objective view that you are taking of yourself.

3

One more comment - theory tests are often used in US conservatory/college auditions for placement only - not admission purposes. Or, if considered for admission, not weighted nearly as highly as the audition playing. In fact, not all conservatories/colleges have a theory exam component to the admissions process. For those that do, if you have passed RCM level 9, you will most likely do fine on US theory entrance exams. (Theory teaching is not standardized in the US - some kids have no formal instruction at all before college years.) You might want to spend more time on your violin and skip the theory grade 10 exam. US conservatories will not care if you have passed all or any levels of RCM Theory - they will only know about the results of their individual theory test.

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You might also need to do a bit more research as to the double degree offerings at the schools you mentioned. Peabody’s academic degree would be granted by Johns Hopkins - others may know the current state of affairs, but I know historically, getting admitted to a double degree program at Peabody/Johns Hopkins is very difficult. And, if accepted, there are two campuses to deal with. CIM has a double degree program with Case Western. Again, not an easy admit. (You could look at Case Western for the possibility of a music and computer degree. The playing level expected is not as high as CIM.) Oberlin is often supportive of double degrees, depending on studio teacher. I don’t know the situation with Indiana, others might help.

My point is, there are concerns simply beyond your playing ability. There is also the attitude and methodology the college/conservatory takes to double degree seekers.

5

University of Rochester has Eastman School of Music.

6

Lawrence, Bard and Ithaca also have double degrees- and many others.

You might want to take a broader view of possible paths. This might relieve stress and help you continue to enjoy music. (And competitions are focused on the short term goal of winning. Think about whether time spent on technique for long term goals would be better.)

So your options are BM, BA in music or something else (CS would be a BS), double major, major/minor, or a non-music major while continuing violin on the side with private instructor and performance in extracurriculars or off campus (many talented students do this).

Read this carefully: http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html

You may or may not want to audition. You can have good choices without an audition if that is what you choose. This forum has threads on liberal arts schools good for music. Tufts, Vassar, St. Olaf and College of Wooster come up. Many more.

Oberlin has a Musical Arts degree for musicians who want to get a BA. Look at websites for schools and see what programs each school has. Be aware that sometimes doing a BA in music, or doing a BA in something else but wanting to study violin, can actually be harder at a conservatory school with a lot of BM students.

Whether you choose BM or BA or BS, there are many many options. And if you feel behind, some schools let you enter as a BA and then transfer to the conservatory BM as you progress.

You will have to do research! But think about your path in very general terms, I think, before getting so specific :slight_smile:

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As others have said, no one can really give you much of an assessment on whether you could get into a program with a dual degree. The repertoire you mention are some of the first ‘major’ concerto’s violin students work on, and typically at the level of school you are talking about kids are auditioning on pieces at the level of Mendelsohn and above, the most typical pieces I have seen are Sibelius, Tchaikovsky and those at a similar level (the Mendelsohn is not uncommon). The level is important, but more importantly is how well you are playing, the rule of thumb usually given that I believe has more than a bit of merit is to play the ‘lesser’ piece that you play well, rather than trying the more difficult one you are not as strong on.

Likewise, your competition wins may or may not indicate the level you are at in terms of your playing, unless a competition is one of the major competitions, that attract top level players (I am talking competitions like the Menuhin, Queen Elizabeth, the Montreal, Indianapolis and so forth), it is really hard to take much of out the many competitions out there, winning those just indicates that the jury thought the winner was playing better than the other competitors and doesn’t indicate levels for something like music school admissions.

I agree with what others have written, one of the best things you can do for yourself is if at all possible to get an assessment of your strengths and weaknesses, from either a high level teacher or even better, a teacher associated with a decent school of music. I assume you are in Canada, if you are near Montreal then a teacher at McGill would be a decent assessment, or if not find a relatively well regarded program closer to home and get an assessment there. Even though that is one teacher’s opinion, they likely can point out the high’s and lows of your playing.

If you read the threads on here about admission, you will hear from people that there is no science to it per se, no magical numbers, and that it is a very subjective thing, and that is true. Violin happens to be very, very competitive (my S is a violin student entering his senior year), extremely so, and the playing level to get into the competitive programs is very, very high. That said, teachers do look for kids who are uniquely musical, who have unique things about them, there have been plenty of kids who applied to top notch music schools into a top teacher’s studio, playing technically at an amazing level, who didn’t get in because musicality and other attributes were lacking in some way…so you don’t know entirely how they pick kids. It is why getting an assessment is important, because while school may vary on how they accept students, some of the programs you mention may be more willing to take a ‘diamond in the rough’ than others, but one thing I can tell you is that even programs looking for ‘diamonds in the rough’ will have a certain standard, so you need to know where you lie to see what options you have and that is where an assessment comes in.

Keep in mind there are multiple options available to you with music. You could go to school and get a degree in something like CS, while doing music at the school (many competitive universities have decent music programs for their students), take private lessons, and then perhaps get a master’s in music performance. Or you could instead of getting a BM, get a BA in music with another degree, then apply at grad school level…just saying that a BM/BA or BS double degree is not necessarily the only way to do this.

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As a Canadian McGill and UToronto both have world renowned music schools that would be very affordable.

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Study with the best teacher you can have and practice practice practice. The teacher or someone else can assess you and perhaps come up with a program to get you up to speed for auditions- if needed.

I would say stop all competitions and possibly stop some of your school commitments to free up time.

Apply to a range of options, including the college side of Bard, Oberlin, Lawrence and Ithaca etc. where you might start in the college but later transition to the conservatory (however if you want to do music in a BA the main opportunities may go to the BM students). You can also apply directly to conservatories for a BM and see how you do with prescreen. And perhaps throw in some colleges with decent non-BM music programs (like Vassar for instance).

You’ll end up doing fine. You sound talented and naturally musical. For awhile, try not to think of music competitively, which is stressful (I know you handle stress well) and just work hard at your own music.