<p>Is it absolutely unheard of such a thing as somebody getting into MIT without a single AP class in sciences? Do you know anybody who did that?</p>
<p>Suppose, a person is interested in things like linguistics and music (which, I've heard are strong at MIT), has strong math background (AP Calc BC, AP Stats, olimpiads experience (getting to AIME), high math scores at SATs), but her lab science background is limited to honors classes (which she does pretty well in, though). Does such person have a shot at MIT? And if that person decides not to take any AP sciences at her school (which, btw, are limited to Chem and Bio only), but to take psyhology class at the local cc instead - will she be viewed by adcom as the science-fearing slacker who seeks the easy way out?</p>
<p>
[quote]
her lab science background is limited to honors classes
[/quote]
Sounds good to me! I think honors classes are perfectly challenging, and with the other APs and the cc class, there's already enough initiative and "ready-for-a-challenge-ness" there to compete just fine with the other applicants.</p>
<p>Everybody has choices to make in high school course selection. The best choice for you is not necessarily just to take every AP in existence, and it's up to you to present your case for taking the classes you did.</p>
<p>You indicated in the Parents forum you D was more of a humanities person. Why would she want to go to MIT in the first place if that is the case? The fact that she may be qualified on paper is not enough. MIT could easily fill its class 4 times over with qualified applicants. Taking the AIME is not going to impress MIT as tens of thousands of kids qualify. </p>
<p>Independently of the applicant's test scores and GPA, MIT is very concerned about the fit between the applicant and the school. MIT is a proud to be a "technology" institute and the first year (and beyond) is purposely designed as a boot camp in math and science. They want people that are passionate about these areas, not students who did well in high school but would rather be doing something else in college. </p>
<p>They are certain to question a less than rigorous senior year curriculum. It is not the time to lift the foot of the gas pedal, take some easy courses and engage in extracurricular activities at the expense of core classes. MIT will not understand why a kid who applies to the most selective technology school in the country takes no demanding math or science class senior year. (AP stat does not qualify). They want to know how well the student does under pressure. It is one thing not to take an AP class when it is not available at the school, but another to skip an advanced class when most of the top students in the same school take it. If your D does not want take AP Chem because she thinks it is too much work, she could take AP Bio (for which she can get credit even at MIT). It is still a lot better than AP stat, which is fluff AP and would give her a fourth year of science. (Psyc. is part of the humanities at MIT).</p>
<p>In the end, I still question whether your D really believes MIT is a fit for her from what you presented elsewhere.</p>
<p>Cellardweller is absolutely right. If you want to apply to a school for its music program, you should take AP music. If you want to apply for its linguistics program, take AP linguistics. Architect? Take AP Architecture. Philosopher? AP Philosophy.</p>
<p>Oh, wait. Those classes don't exist.</p>
<p>You should never, ever take a class because you believe MIT will want to see you taking that class. The admissions committee is well-aware of the fact that not ALL interests can be encompassed by high-school classes (at most high schools, anyway). Believe it or not, there are people at MIT who are not science majors! There are math majors who've never taken science beyond the General Institute Requirements! Same for architecture majors, linguistics majors... Not killing yourself over taking a class you don't really like is not a problem! In fact, it's encouraged!</p>
<p>Take that time you would spend doing AP Bio or Chem and go out and do something you love with it. Hopefully, something pertaining to your desired field of study. But hell, sometimes, depending on the field you want to go into, you can't. I doubt many high-school students get to do cool stuff in linguistics, and it sounds like she's already taken upper-level math.</p>
<p>Basically: listen to Mollie, and don't presume anything about the admissions at MIT!</p>
<p>Actually, my D had taken AP Music ... theory, that is, last year.</p>
<p>cellardweller,</p>
<br>
[QUOTE=""]
<p>If your D does not want take AP Chem
because she thinks it is too much work</p>
<br>
<p>That's not the only reason and certainly not the main reason. She actually considers taking chem in college, because this year she liked her chem honors class; but from what she heard from her friends at our school there is no really good chem teachers at AP level - one is known to be terrible and one is so-so. She is afraid not of just "too much work" but of "too much stress with less than perfect teaching leading to wasting her time for the things she likes less and not having enough time for the things she likes more". Oh, and she is afraid to stop liking chemistry as the result, which right now she likes very much. She is not interested in Bio, though, unfortunately.</p>
<p>I think it's completely reasonable not to take every AP in existence, and I don't think every student who doesn't take a certain AP is making that choice out of laziness. Not everybody likes physics or chem or what have you enough to take an AP course in it. (In my case, I hated physics, there were no good chem teachers at my school, and bio conflicted with show choir.)</p>
<p>With that said, I think it bears repeating that all MIT students, regardless of major, have to pass courses in physics, chemistry, biology, and calculus. It's tough for students who didn't take any AP sciences to keep up in these classes, since most of the other students in the class did take the AP version in high school. It's not an insurmountable difficulty, but it does tend to make one feel like the class dunce. (And, as noted above, I am speaking from experience. :))</p>
<p>Yes, but reading it again I realize it may have come off incredibly harsh. I meant to be tongue-in-cheek, so I apologize to cellardweller if it seemed antagonizing in any respect.</p>
<p>Your daughter's rationale sounds reasonable. Maybe she should intimate these reasons in her application, but they will definitely not keep her from getting accepted.</p>
<p>Maybe she should intimate these reasons in her application</p>
<br>
<p>That's the thing I wonder about: should she mention the lack of good science teachers at her school as the reason of not taking AP sciences? Would it look good?</p>
<p>I wouldn't be so blatant as to say "The teachers for X class suck, so I'm not taking it," but she should definitely mention "I didn't really approve of the way X class was taught at my high school, for Y reasons, so instead I chose to dedicate my time to Z."</p>
<p>During my senior year, I didn't take any science classes for the following reasons:
-I didn't take AP Chem because I did not like the teacher.
-I didn't take AP Bio because I don't like Biology
-I didn't take AP Physics because it conflicted wth my music classes. </p>
<p>Nevertheless, I really really want to come to MIT and feel fully prepared to take 3 science and math classes a semester for the next 4 years. (As long as I like the teachers and the material is not boring).</p>
<p>I think you will have a tough sell. Not only does MIT look at passion for math and science but as Mollie emphasized they look at preparation and readiness for an intensive math/science program. Math and science at MIT is MUCH MUCH harder than AP classes. As an example, of the students that take the Advanced Standing exam in Chemistry at the beginning of the year after having already taken AP Chem, virtually NOBODY passes. However good you were in high school, you will struggle at MIT. In its admission process, MIT looks hard for people who will thrive and succeed in that environment. </p>
<p>At MIT is is often not the students with the highest incoming test scores and grades that do best. It is those that can handle stress, adversity and setbacks and still persevere. From the application and in the interview, MIT will want to find out how well your D dealt with stress in high school. When faced with an obstacle or tough choice, did she take the easy way out? Few people like every subject or teacher. Is that a valid excuse to opt out of the course altogether?</p>
<p>
[quote]
I wouldn't be so blatant as to say "The teachers for X class suck, so I'm not taking it," but she should definitely mention "I didn't really approve of the way X class was taught at my high school, for Y reasons, so instead I chose to dedicate my time to Z."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is basically what I put on my application regarding an AP Comp Sci class that my school just started offering this year. Since my freshman year, I had been trying to take the intro to Java course that was supposed to be offered, but I was always told there was a "lack of interest;" basically, not enough students signed up for their liking. Over the summer, I found out that a vocational high school in my area was offering a Java/Web programming class taught by a woman who got her PhD in computer science from Brown and had worked with Sun Microsystems and Macromedia, and signed up for it. Then, at the beginning of the year, the AP Comp Sci class was added to the curriculum, and the Java course was now necessary as a prerequisite; however, the only time it was offered was during my Advanced Physics course (my school does not offer science APs). I explained all of this in the "anything else?" box, which is basically there for that purpose.</p>
<p>I am an avid lover of science, and I've taken all of the science courses my school offers except for Marine Biology (a known slacker class) and Anatomy and Physiology (because my interests just don't tend that way). My school doesn't offer AP sciences, so in context that looks fine; however, someone who goes to a school that does offer them and doesn't take them might not be considered the same way by the adcoms. MIT is, first and foremost, a science and technology school.</p>
<p>cellaradweller, you definetely have a point. On the other hand, is it too much to hope that at MIT sciences are taught better than at my D's school and, therefore, the experience might be more enjoyable and the the results more satisfactory?</p>
<p>There is no doubt that science at MIT is a lot more interesting than at most colleges. Biology, chemistry or physics is taught by or people at the frontier of science, sometimes Nobel prize winners. You nevertheless have to like the field and show a passion for at least some area of science. At many elite schools, math and science is often at the periphery of the education, both physically and in emphasis. You could spend you entire education without ever taking an advanced math class or even entering a science building. Science students are typically part of a minority, and the center of gravity lies elsewhere. At MIT, science is at the core and the edges. It is everywhere. If you don't like it you are going to have a very unhappy experience. While some departments like neuroscience are "light" in their math, physics and chemistry requirements you still have to take the GIRs first. </p>
<p>As the father of a D applying to MIT this fall, I have made clear to her that it would be a very different experience from an Ivy league or other top college. She is interested in medicine and biology and not at all in engineering. Still for her MIT may be the best match because she would not be characterized as one of the these "nerdy premeds in the science building". She would just be normal and would not have to apologize for her passion for science.</p>
During my senior year, I didn't take any science classes for the following reasons:
-I didn't take AP Chem because I did not like the teacher.
-I didn't take AP Bio because I don't like Biology
-I didn't take AP Physics because it conflicted wth my music classes.
But that was me. And I got in, and I took three to five science classes per term for the next eight terms, and all that jazz.</p>
<p>As I said above, everybody has choices to make with regard to high school class selection, and choosing not to take AP sciences is not necessarily about wanting to take the easy way out. In my case, for example, I would have happily chosen not to get into MIT rather than give up show choir and take AP Bio, even though I really wanted to take AP bio. So instead, I read sixty popular science books in a year and took all the honors science classes my school offered. And I wrote about it in my application.</p>