Getting into an Ivy

Applying to College
1

<p>Hello Forum,</p>

<p>I am currently a junior in a small public school located in the middle of nowhere. Stressing out about college admissions (especially when SAT's and ACT's are so close) is never good for anyone's health, so I decided to ask you guys for your opinion on my standing right now. </p>

<p>Schools I want to get into:
-Ivy Leagues (Dartmouth, Brown, Yale, and maybe even Harvard)
-Tufts University
-Johns Hopkins</p>

<p>My standing right now:
1) 3.7 gpa (weighted)
2) class rank- in the top 6%
3) joined tennis junior year (not varsity though I will be next year)
4) Community service in the hospital during 10th grade and the summer (I plan on doing more after testing)
5) no NHS (will that affect my admission chances?)
6) joined two groups in school this year that focus on community service and global citizenship.
7) no leadership (except when I painted a mural in middle school). I have proposed two projects for the groups mentioned above ( a fundraiser and a middle school powerpoint on bullying)
8) middle school band (played the saxophone) and first year of high school band. (my schedule was full the next years because I doubled up on science classes.)
9) 2 AP classes (3 next year). (I have a 85 in AP Chem for the first semester. Is that bad?)
10) I draw manga and realistic art (I learned by myself, I have never taken classes for it. I have never won any awards for my art.) And I have played the violin for the past 4 years (I have never played in an orchestra or been in any concerts).
11)I have never won any awards except in middle school for being an outstanding student. (something silly like that).
12) I am shooting for a 2100+ on the SAT and ACT. (I will get it, and higher!)</p>

<p>So, what do you think? What do I need to improve upon? Where am I strong and where am I lacking. Any advice or opinions (positive or negative) would be helpful!</p>

<p>Oh! Will going the the National Youth Leadership Forum on Medicine help my chances of getting into the schools I want to go (will it be worth the money if it is helpful)? (I plan on going to medical school. It's my dream!)</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

2

<p>Never heard of this National forum thingy, but I’m very much not a premed, so I don’t know how valuable my opinion is there. If it’s a lot of money, I would be suspicious but not necessarily immediately rule it out.</p>

<p>Tufts/JHU: I don’t know. Maybe? I’d guess that they’re still reaches, though. Tufts might only be a low reach.</p>

<p>Ivies: nope. Your GPA is way low, but given your class rank I think you’ll be mostly fine, since that just indicates that your high school grade-deflates. Although if your high school never sends kids to Ivies, can you answer why you’d be more/as qualified for one than the kids ranked ahead of you? (There are good reasons. I don’t know what my class rank was. While I was probably around top 10%, I might have been as low as top 20%. This was at an excellent high school, but it’s not like most of the kids ranked above me ended up at HYP. Do you have one? If I asked your teachers who the top students in your year were, would your name be one of the first couple to jump to their lips?) </p>

<p>Beyond numbers, there’s no obvious reason to admit you from your extracurriculars, as you can probably tell (no leadership or awards, or mad skillz born from a decade+ of commitment to violin, say). My test for students who aren’t obvious admits (so, 98% of applicants), is “can you give a 25-word compelling pitch on why you should be admitted?” If the answer is yes: “I am a high-achieving science student with an equally high level of devotion and achievement to the arts,” for example, go for it. For more examples, “I am an excellent student, and I making a difference. My youth organization has helped increase the grades of a couple hundred needy kids.” or “I am an accomplished non-Asian musician who taught myself Japanese and study both the history and musical tradition of Japan for funsies.” The pitch doesn’t have to be whackadoo–there’s only space for so many Australian-piccolo-playing champion pig-wrestlers at Harvard at a time–but it has to be compelling.</p>

<p>If you are uncertain of yourself, it’s just an exercise. It’s not something you necessarily have to BELIEVE ALL THE TIME. That would probably make you a little full of it. But if I made you, could you tell me why you would be a worthy member of Dartmouth or whatever’s entering freshman class? Hint: the phrases “I made a difference” or “My name jumps to teachers’ lips as a top student” both automatically bump you to the “compelling enough pitch that, hey, why not give applying a shot” category.</p>

<p>Going forward, how to improve the quality of colleges that will admit you

  1. Make a difference.
  2. Get that 2100+ on the SAT; rather higher if you can.
  3. Think about applying to awards for your art.
  4. DO RESEARCH. If you do really good scientific research, all the words I just spilled become invalid. If you spend the rest of your pre-college time doing work that gets you, say, Intel STS Semi-finalist, you are suddenly well within range for Ivies. (Of course, there’s never a guarantee). But if research doesn’t appeal,
    4a. do intense medically-related (or art-related) community service. See 1. If you manage that, life is good, and somewhere good will take you.
  5. If there are clubs you are in, try to get leadership positions in them.</p>
3

<p>That National Forum thing isn’t going to impress the adcoms. It’s not nearly as selective as they make it out to be in the letter that they send.</p>

<p>I’d say your chances are pretty weak atm. If you raise your UW GPA to a 3.7, then you could have a decent shot.</p>

4

<p>No Shot. SAT needs to get a lot higher and grades are bad. 3.7 UNWEIGHTED is even a little bit low for the Ivies. Your extracurriculars are nothing good. You don’t have depth or breadth. It seems as if you did nothing your first two years. No Chance 0%. Sorry if that was a bit harsh.</p>

<p>Improvement suggestions

  1. WORK ON YOUR GRADES
  • get the best grades possible for the rest of high school.
  1. WORK ON SAT
  • a 2100 is good, be proud of it, but that is not ivy level.
  1. GET MORE ECS AND MORE LEADERSHIP
  • 3 ECs is not enough, plus you have no leadership either.
  1. SHOW INITIATIVE AND DO SOMETHING THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE
  • think of something: internship, community project, research…
  1. APPLY FOR STUFF
  • awards, scholarships, programs, internships
  • do this is your intrest areas</p>

<p>IDK if doing this will help this late, but try your best. I know i will sound like a dick, but its the truth. You are a good kid, and what college you attend does not define you. Look at some more colleges that would fit your stats. Good Luck</p>

<p>As for medicine, you do not have to go to a great undergrad to get into med school. By posting on CC, it shows that you care about your future. Start being the best you can be and you will fulfill your dreams. Do well in the rest of high school and college, and be passionate in whatever you want.</p>

5

<p>A few thoughts here:</p>

<p>1) colleges aren’t interested in what you did in middle school, unless you slip it into an essay somewhere and it’s really, really remarkable.</p>

<p>2) I don’t think you have too few ECs at all - the mantra is ‘quality’ not ‘quantity’ and you don’t have to show ‘leadership’ either. But you do have to demonstrate a high level of accomplishment in whatever ECs you do focus on. Sounds like you’re an artist and a musician, with a potential interest in medicine. That’s plenty of ECs, if you focus on the them and can show a high level of achievement in at least one of those areas.</p>

<p>3) Practice makes a big difference to SAT and ACT scores. If you don’t practice and take the tests cold, you are missing a major opportunity.</p>

<p>4) Have the money talk with your parents to figure out what you can afford, how much debt you are willing to carry, etc… Med School is very expensive, and they don’t care particularly about your undergrad prestige - it’s GPA and MCAT - so find a place with good sciences that you can afford.</p>

<p>5) For your reaches, get your GPA up. Check out the Common Data Set for 2012 for each of the schools you are looking at to see how you compare to matriculated students. Without a hook, you need to make sure you’re firmly in the middle, especially at the highly selective schools (which covers all of those you mentioned in your post.)</p>

<p>6) Search pre-med on CC. There’s lots of good advice.</p>

6

<p>UW GPA and course rigor are necessary to determine how well your grades are, but I’d safely assume that a 3.7 weighted is not quite Ivy-level. </p>

<p>Most of what I’d want to say has already been said. Focus on those grades. Participate in the activities that you’re passionate about. Get some leadership positions if you can in activities that mean a lot to you. Keep up community service work. And some prayer wouldn’t be bad, because getting into those colleges boils down to a game of luck.</p>

7

<p>I won’t pile on but I think your biggest goal ahead is to compile a good set of colleges to target. The Ivies or JHU are extremely unlikely. Even if you 4.0 this and your first semester Senior year, your GPA, by time of application will be 3.79 – not very competitive for your initial list of dream schools. Don’t get me wrong – you’re clearly a gifted student with a bright future ahead of you. But given the numbers of kids with more stellar accomplishments than yours, targeting the same schools, you can’t bank on them whatsoever.</p>

<p>However, I have no doubt you’ll find excellent schools clamoring for someone like you. Best of luck to you.</p>

8

<p>Thank you all for your honest opinions! Any harshness was well deserved as (and I agree) my standing is fairly weak for Ivy Leagues and JHU. Nevertheless, I will take all of your advice’s into account and try my hardest the end of my high school years. Thank you all again!</p>

9

<p>Hahaha! Please, if saying the honest truth makes you sound bad, then there is no justice in the world. I thank you non the less for putting things in perspective for me (as well as the other people who posted on this forum!) and giving me an honest opinion. My only regret is that I didn’t post on this forum freshman year! Maybe if I knew what ivy leagues were looking for then I could still have a fighting chance of getting in. xD </p>

<p>I will do my best though, I will not give up on my dream of going to a good medical school. Though you are right, perhaps going to an in state college for four years would be better, (less tuition, closer to home, same education, etc.)</p>

<p>The reason I want to go to an ivy league is because I will have a better chance of getting into their medical schools. Will going to a in-state college (and doing well in it) give me a good chance of getting into an ivy league medical school?</p>

10

<p>“Will going to a in-state college (and doing well in it) give me a good chance of getting into an ivy league medical school?”</p>

<p>Yes - but that’s an entirely different discussion. Medical school rankings are different from undergraduate school rankings and much depends on whether you plan a career in academic medicine and research, or whether you are more focused on clinical care.</p>

11

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<p>Go to the PreMed Topics forum. But don’t start a new thread to ask this question as it is probably the most asked FAQ. Instead, read through some old threads and read the stick threads at the top of the forum about what to look for in an UG college.</p>

<p>The PreMed Topics forum has excellent members who are both helpful and experienced. If you regret not coming to CC as a fr, I can guarantee you that you will regret not going to the PreMed Topics forum for med school. It is much better than the scary Student Doctor Network forum. And if you follow along each year with the group of applicants applying to med school, you will have a very good idea of what is involved in the process.</p>

<p>p.s. drop the ‘Ivy’ thing, it’s just an athletic conference ;).</p>

12

<p>Thank you for the advice Entomom! I will definitely check that forum out! (because, like you said, I do believe I will regret it if I don’t). </p>

<p>I researched Ivy league schools before, and I read up on their history. I believe that many people, myself included, strive for those sorts of schools because of the name. Its a bit ignorant on my part to want to get in so my degree will have “Graduated from Harvard” on it, but I’m afraid that’s just the way the cookie crumbles. Names are important, as my parents would often say.</p>

<p>But, truthfully, I would rather go to a no-name school and be happy, then go to Harvard or Yale and be miserable. “What’s in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.” -WS</p>

<p>Please forgive this long reply and bizarre explanation. Thank you again for the advice!</p>

13

<p>OH NO!! I HAVE BEEN GIVING FALSE INFORMATION TO YOU GUYS!! (I was given false information first; don’t shoot the messenger!) </p>

<p>MY GPA IS 3.7 UN-weighted. </p>

<p>I can’t fix it above. So sorry! Does this change my chances slightly? What would that be as weighted?</p>

14

<p>The National Youth Leadership Forum on Medicine is a waste of your money.</p>

<p>Your class rank is what will hinder your app at the Ivies. For example, 40% of Dartmouth’s class is a Val or Sal. Add in the athletic recruits and other hooked candidates, and you can quickly gather that top 6% makes the Ivies a real stretch from a small public school.</p>

<p>Shoot for 2200/33. Raise your gpa.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

15

<p>My daughter’s a frosh at Yale and as far as I know barely scraped by to get into the top 10% at her “regular” public high school. Partly that’s because she took a very tough schedule, and our school’s weighting for AP/Honors (and ranking) is paltry, but also because she was not always motivated enough to push that 94 to a 99. In any case, blanket statements that make it sound like you’d better be at least salutatorian or “hooked” to get in are not helpful.</p>

16

<p>"MY GPA IS 3.7 UN-weighted.</p>

<p>…Does this change my chances slightly? What would that be as weighted?"</p>

<p>Unless you have some sort of hook (under-represented portion of the population or exceptional ability in some extra-curricular area) or manage to get stellar SAT/ACT scores you are still probably a long shot, but go ahead and apply to a couple if you have the spare cash. </p>

<p>Look at it this way: everyone from everywhere wants in to the Ivies. They get so many applications from not only the tippy top of the student pool but from all the above-average students with starry-eyed dreams of being on the inside track to success if they get in. The Ivies are just looking for a reason, any reason to chuck an app into the trash, unread, but will accept some percentage of people with lesser credentials if they fulfill some sort of “diversity” criteria. </p>

<p>Deserved or not, the Ivies have the reputation of providing their students with the “best of the best” education in the US. (At the undergraduate level I’m personally not so sure it is universally valid). </p>

<p>Your grades are not bad for a good state school and some good LACs. For some, you might parlay the community service into a proper “I’m out to save the world” attitude on a supplemental admissions essay and emphasize your drawing skills as self-taught, it might get somebody’s attention on an admissions committee. If you think your stuff is really that good, also consider sending in some digitized examples as an “extra” after you turn in your applications. I think the Common App has a special form for this, and I know some schools have their own special supplemental forms online for this purpose. </p>

<p>But look on an Ivy League school as a super-super-reach, and concentrate your efforts more on the highest quality “matches” you can find with a few “reaches” where your credentials are just on the edge.</p>

17

<p>MaskedJ, you didn’t mention your race. Which is - whether for good or for bad - often a factor in admissions decisions.</p>

18

<p>I’m caucasian. I am of a different nationality though; my family and I immigrated to America from Ukraine. I just don’t know if that information would be considered as a deciding factor or not.</p>