<p>Would this be a good "recipe"?
GPA: 3.9
MCAT: 36+
Research: Commited at current university (good recs), something at NIH and published in big journal
Volunteer/Shadow
Good Recs</p>
<p>EC's:
Leadership in at least 3 student organizations, all throughout 4 yrs
Sports throughout 4 yrs
Some evidence of "people skills"</p>
<p>Great Recs
Great Essay/Personal Statement
Great Interview</p>
<p>What else? I'm assuming for really top places that one would need more than just what's above.</p>
<p>Read the pinned items advising how to best apply to medical school. It really is the same list no matter the US-MD school, though in most parts the numbers (MCAT & GPA) are critical for consideration to many of what you would consider top tier med schools.</p>
<p>Haha no dude I’m in high school. I was just wondering. But it seems like what you are saying is the more competitive the school, the more they rely on scores.</p>
<p>Since you’re still in high school, I’d invite you to consider this proposition: for most doctors, going to a top-tier medical school is a pretty bad value.</p>
<p>Medical school is trade school. They teach you how the body works when it’s working properly, what can cause it to stop working right, and what, if anything, can be done to make it work properly again. But basically the pancreas is the pancreas: it produces the same hormones and is affected by the same diseases, whether you study it at Johns Hopkins or the University of Oklahoma.</p>
<p>If you want to be a regular doctor, taking care of sick people, I can’t see how you add much value by paying more to go anywhere other than your home-state medical school, where you can pay in-state tuition. </p>
<p>And even if you want to be a leading professor and medical researcher, I’m not sure you get your money’s worth by going to Hopkins instead of your home-state medical school. What really matters, if you want to be a professor and researcher, is where you do your residency and fellowships. Those you should do at major university medical centers, but in most medical specialties, you can still get residencies and fellowships at major university medical centers if you have been at the top of your class at your home-state medical school. In other words, if your c.v. says you went to Swarthmore, and then medical school at the University of Oklahoma, and then did your residency and fellowship at Penn, most people will figure out that you went to medical school in Oklahoma because you could pay resident tuition there, and they’ll understand.</p>
<p>I don’t know what a “regular” doctor is. I hope regular doesn’t mean average. Most people want to be the best doctor possible. I strongly believe that you have to be challenged in order to get the most out of yourself. That means surrounding yourself with the best of the best. Medical school education is relatively standardized. I don’t necessarily think there’s a difference in med school training b/w Hopkins and your regular state med school. But, I do think there is a difference in terms of students and in terms of atmosphere. I know this because we have students from all different kinds of med schools who do audition rotations with us. I learn as much from my classmates as I do from my residents and attendings and what my classmates do has had a huge influence on my own development as a clinician. And certainly going to a top tier med school will help you come residency time. Don’t kid yourself (have you actually been through the residency application process?). Unlike with med schools, training varies considerably b/w different residency programs.</p>
<p>Of course, there are many other factors that determine where you go for med school such as finances, proximity to family, fit, etc. But, it’s silly to think only future future academic docs or future chairmen benefit from going to a top med school. Even if your goal is private practice radiology or private practice primary care, there are still benefits to going to a place like Hopkins.</p>
<p>It was my understanding that if one went to a top tier medical school then it would be easier for one to match into competitive residency programs; I agree that one could still have a wonderful career in medicine without attending top schools, but I think that’s moee important to go to an undergrad school that isnt necessarily prestigious. You can get a great MCAT, do good research, and participate in the community at virtually any undergrad instution. In some cases, going to a flagship state school may be even “easier” (competition and gpa wise) than some top 10 schools. But I’m only in high school, and I was just curious aboot things</p>
<p>Sometimes I wonder, when seeing all these posts about how to get into top-tier medical schools, if high school students and young undergrads can really grasp that one does not have to attend the most prestigious medical school in order to become the best doctor they can be. </p>
<p>NCG, I like that you pointed out how much your community and your classmates have influenced your education. I agree that mine have done the same so far, and a huge reason why I love my school as much as I do is because I really enjoy the community here. I think you make a great point that factors other than prestige come into play when deciding where to go to school, and that for some people those factors may be more important than prestige. I couldn’t agree with you more (although I am just starting my med school career–perhaps my opinion will change with time). I just get the impression from the volume of these posts that younger students are having a tough time understanding that idea. I don’t really know how to convey that idea better, other than to just reiterate it.</p>
<p>I won’t say there aren’t. But I’ll question whether they’re worth the price you pay. Since we’re talking about Hopkins, let’s talk about Hopkins. Tuition (and tuition only) at Hopkins SOM this year is just over $46,000. But for a Maryland resident, tuition at University of Maryland SOM, just a few miles away, is just under $21,000.</p>
<p>Are the benefits of attending Hopkins instead of Maryland worth $100,000? Are they worth $100,000 of your family’s savings? What if you have to borrow? Are they worth $100,000 of educational debt? Would they be worth $100,000 of additional debt above what you’d have to borrow for Maryland? What if that’s on top of undergraduate debt? A hundred thousand dollars is a lot of money.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>By the same token, might it not be easier to be junior AOA (i.e., inducted into the medical honor society as a 3rd-year student, the first time you’re eligible) at your state medical school than at Johns Hopkins?</p>
<p>I think there’s a lot more variation among undergraduate institutions than there is among medical schools. If I were looking to economize one place or the other, I’d economize on med school. Just my opinion. Others’ opinions may vary.</p>
<p>I agree with you that if you want to do clinical medicine and enter private practice, it won’t really matter. HOWEVER, if you want to do anything else such as academic medicine, healthcare administration, and even public health (where the pay sucks) going to an elite medical school will open up so many more doors for you. If you want to be the next Surgeon General of the United States or a Director of a big time health institution in this country (NIH, CDC, FDA), you need to go to a great medical school and destroy it there. </p>
<p>OP, getting the numbers/ecs etc for elite medical schools is easier said then done. Its great to be ambitious but it also pays to be pragmatic. Work incredibly hard and try to excel in as many areas as you as an undergrad, whether it be clinical experience, gpa, mcat, research, or leadership positions. Very few people will be able to excel in all. My biggest deficieny on my application is my MCAT score. I never thought that I would have a mediocre mcat score because I did well in my classes AND I scored in the top 97% on the SATs. But in the end my mcat score was weak. As a result, I probably won’t end up at a top 25 medical school. Can I live with that, sure. Will I still work incredibly hard to achieve my career goals at some average state medical school, DEFINITELY. I guess what I am trying to say is don’t have a top medical school or nothing mentality. At the end of the day, even if you end up in my shoes where you won’t get into any top 25 medical schools, as long as you know you tried your best, you will still be disappointed, but at least you won’t have any regrets and you will be able to sleep easy at night.</p>
<p>This is the best advice given. Regular = average = great. Not a researcher, not an academic doc who fights for NIH grants, but a doc who takes care of patients</p>
<p>OP,
As a HS’er, you are wasting yours and others’ time. Enjoy your HS years and think of notheing else, they will be gone sooner than you wish.
The common sense is to finalize Med. School list only after they know thier MCAT score. So, take MCAT if you wish to do so, then you can discuss…it is not clear even for pre-meds with college GPA=4.0. Nobody owns a crystal ball.</p>
<p>As I said, one could probably have a wonderful career in medicine without going to an amazing medical or undergraduate school, several member of my of family did, and are very happy with their careers. </p>
<p>Again, I was just wondering what separates a Harvard med student from any other med student.
I guess my next mission is to **** people in the pre law forum, see y’all there mwahahaha</p>
<p>“amazing medical or undergraduate school” - is very personal. Harvard is not amazing for everybody. Some withdraw from very highly ranked schools, just because they do not feel that they belong there. Your approach is very superficial. Many are involved in extansive research, visit a lot, communicate with current student, check out the campuses. Annd they still debate between several schools at the end. That is if they even applied, got accepted to several. Most are very happy to have enough stats and other stuff to apply to any USA Med. School. Most are also very happy to get accepted to one single school, plenty enough for them. We are talking about very top caliber students here, the cream of the crop college kids. Remember that only about 43% of applicants get accepted to any Med. School. Very low percentage of original pre-meds get to the point of applying to Med. Schools. To decide in HS that Harvard is the one to go to Med. School is extremely pre-mature.</p>
<p>By amazing I should have said highy ranked/selective professional school where the requirements to get to into even a low ranked/not as selective school are already very hard to attain; Harvard was just an example.
I’ll rephrase my question a third time:
I’m a high school with nothing else to do but wonder how top tier medical schools select students when most if the applicant pool is already very qualified as medical school candidates. Do they look for insanely high test scores one of a kind people who have achieved magificent goals. Sincerley, a curious high school student who realizes that he is too young to even be contemplating medical school admissions.</p>
Yes. And you forgot high GPA. Do they accept some others? Yes. But they are looking for the above and for building a class that reflects their values and goals as an institution.</p>
<p>you also forgot “people who would make good doctors.” Plenty of high performing people are not fit for medicine.</p>
<p>if anyone could tell you the exact recipe for getting into harvard they would have already set up a multi-million dollar private admissions consulting business and have money falling out of their pockets.</p>
Although I heard of the same many times from different sources, the concept of “their values and goals as an institution” is still an elusive one for me.</p>
<p>Does it mean that, since a med school ranked high in the the research list is mostly because of the quality and quantity of the research done by the faculty, their students there are more inclined or expected to do research during their 4 years there even when they are not MD/PhD students?</p>
<p>I also heard some med schools that are high in the (US N&R’s) research rank are especially keen on looking for “future leaders” in the med community. How do they succeed in recruiting these students and guide their students into that career path once they are there? I think this may be even more true for a school like the very top law school like YLS (many of them even will be in public service) than any top med schools in the research rank.</p>
<p>Regarding the issue of becoming a leader in a med community, the pedigree of the med school matters. For example, the person who currently leads UTSW med school now was graduated from a med school with a big name and did residency in a big name institute also. But sometimes you would wonder whether it is chichen first or the egg first.</p>
<p>I think the answer to your question is yes. For example, I go to a research oriented medical school and something like over 80% of the class does research during medical school with roughly 25% of the class going so far as taking time off to do so. You also have to remember not to conflate basic science research with medical research as a whole. There are plenty of grants to be won and research to be done that doesn’t require touching a pipette or a PCR.</p>
<p>If you look at the mission statements of medical schools, you will see that there is actually a fair amount of variability between ones that talk about research vs. leadership vs. community vs. urban vs. rural, etc. There is more at stake than just how “competitive” your stats are. When medical schools accept students, they are branding them, and they want their brand to look a certain way. Sometimes that means turning away an otherwise excellent candidate because they don’t fit your image. It’s why virtually every school asks “why here” on the secondary. They want your take on how you fit into their brand.</p>