Girl/Guy Ratio and OOS Social Scene

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill
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<p>So, now that I have gotten decisions from all the colleges I applied to, I'm ready to pick which school I want to attend. I'm fortunate enough to have a wide range of choices, from Northeastern to Notre Dame to Penn State to, of course, UNC. I know I'll be happy wherever I chose to go, and I got the same amount of aid from all of them, so basically now my decision is being influenced more and more by nitpicky things. I know this may sound weird to some people, but at this point I already know I'll be attending great schools, so now I just want to find out which one would be the best fit- in every aspect, not just academic.</p>

<p>That said, I really do think UNC is perfect in every way. Warm weather (I'm from NE- nothing is more appealing than that!), great reputation, challenging academics... the only thing I'm concerned about is the notorious guy/girl ratio and the social scene for out of state students. I've read some student reviews... and, well, some are pretty tough on this subject and have led me to believe I'll basically only interact with girls for 4 years of my life. Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty friendly and comfortable with myself, and I've never considered myself ugly, but by the looks of it, if you're not model material you won't have a good time when it comes to the dating scene. Not that I really really care about it, but it is a concern. Also, being from out of state, I'm not too worried about making friends (UNC sounds like a pretty friendly place) but I do want to know more about whether or not it's obvious OOS have a harder time integrating themselves, etc.</p>

<p>I know this all sounds silly... but I just wanted to see if others feel the same, or if some UNC students/alumn could provide some helpful feedback. Thanks!</p>

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<p>I can’t really address the dating issue, as I have had the same girlfriend the entire time I’ve been at UNC, but as far as fitting in OOS goes, you have nothing to worry about. Where you are from does not define your experience at UNC in any way. It is really something that comes up when you first meet someone or talk about what plans for various breaks are. </p>

<p>I’m OOS and my closest friends are from Chapel Hill, Charlotte, Dublin, Wisconsin, and Cary just to give you an idea. As an OOSer, I had no troubles, and to be honest, I was kind of anti-social my first year here.</p>

<p>Just as a final thought about the male to female ratio, the ratio is getting that way at a lot of schools nationwide. It just seems that more attention has been pot on UNC since that article in the New York Times.</p>

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<p>Funny thing is, that article is the one that got me all freaked out in the first place. But thanks! Sometimes I think I’m worrying for no reason, so it’s nice to see positive comments like that.</p>

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<p>Being OOS is a non issue…no one knows where you are from nor do they care.</p>

<p>People tend to congregate in large mixed social circles, some date, some don’t. The f/m ratio is becoming more prevalent at many schools and is far worse at other schools than UNC.</p>

<p>Penn State is HUGE and the chance of being a number certainly exists there. Notre Dame is very conservative; there are strict rules about inter visitation and it still has “hours” that have to be maintained. Their strict social policies kept several female friends of my son from attending there and South Bend is certainly not Chapel Hill or the State College.</p>

<p>UNC might have the perfect mix of academics and social scene. Of the three you mention it is the only school whose students don’t want to leave; there was even an article in the NY Times a few years back that addresses just that. It was called “Towns They Don’t Want to Leave” and Chapel Hill was one of the five towns featured. Here’s an except:</p>

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<p>Very interesting article. And yeah, I’m not too concerned with being just a number… I really do feel like that prepares you for the real world better anyway. I’m leaning more toward UNC as the days go by, it just seems like I’d be happy there. Thanks for all the input!</p>

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I would just like to try and clarify this. The reason I think this issue may often brought be up is b/c freshman year people in the beginning tend to stick to their friends from high school. Because UNC is mostly in-state students, this does happen BUT ONLY in the very beginning (and I bet this happens everywhere). I kind of equate it to the first day of school in high school when you have no idea where to sit at in lunchroom - you look for a familiar face. Just like packer has stated, my best friends are from literally all over. Everyone at UNC is very open and accepting and happy to make friends. Their are a limitless amount of opportunities for students on-campus and I can promise you you’re gonna love it here if you come!</p>

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<p>You are somewhat right to worry about the guy/girl ratio, I think. The thing you have to remember is that there are almost 2 girls for every guy. And if you consider some activities that are traditionally (stereotypically) more girl-friendly, like various student groups, the student union and parts of the library — well sometimes you might think you’re at an all girls college.</p>

<p>The dating scene here <em>is</em> really messed up, in my experience, despite the defensive reactions to the NYT article. The things those girls said were obviously a bit extreme and confined to a certain social circle, but the guys here <em>are</em> often (not always) walking around with an overinflated opinion of themselves.</p>

<p>I have to agree with the others, though, that being from OOS will make no difference whatsoever. I might say otherwise if you were foreign (get ready for a billion friendly-but-annoying questions and study abroad tales) or an ethnic minority: just walking around campus, you can feel the ethnic self-segregation.</p>

<p>But a white OOS American? Go for it, bearing in mind the sex ratio issue.</p>

<p>Oh and I wouldn’t but too much faith in people hanging around after they graduate – in a lot of cases I know, that’s because they couldn’t find a job.</p>

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<p>So would you say one would have to worry being a female, out of state, ethnic minority from a foreign background?</p>

<p>… ugh</p>

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<p>^ No? I don’t know where people get the impression that UNC isn’t diverse. It is a 60/40 gender split, which is not that unusual, there are plenty of OOSers, and all races are represented.</p>

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<p>Well … yes (though there are some people at UNC who meet those conditions and love it there).</p>

<p>I’m not sure what a ‘foreign background’ would be, though? Either you are foreign or not.</p>

<p>Maybe I should flip it around: UNC is heaven for white, middle-class or above, white male North Carolinians. Other groups probably love it too, but for each other group there will be some subtle concerns.</p>

<p>I should mention that the racial segretation is bad for white people too: they miss out on the chance of having lots of diverse friends.</p>

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<p>keepittoyourself, are we going to the same university?</p>

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60/40 is a lot closer to 1:1 than 2:1 . . . and as others have pointed out, this is a ratio common among many colleges - not just UNC-Chapel Hill.</p>

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This is extremely hyperbolic. There are around 7,000 undergraduate males at UNC-Chapel Hill (out of an overall undergraduate population of 17,000).</p>

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So one minute you are saying that there are no males at UNC, and next you are saying that UNC only caters to middle-class white males from NC???</p>

<p>Anyways, this is not at all reflective of my experience at Carolina. While there is some level of self-segregation, I hang out with, work with, and live with a group of friends that is diverse in hometown, gender, race, sexuality, and socioeconomic status – and I wouldn’t have it any other way.</p>

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<p>“60/40 is a lot closer to 1:1 than 2:1”</p>

<p>Not a math major, I hope!</p>

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<p>To all</p>

<p>I guess it’s time for me to do my annual jump in and try to bring some sanity back to the boards…;)</p>

<p>Please be aware that due to the anonymity that this board affords to its posters, every year someone new comes to the board with an opinion that is 180 degrees away from what everyone else is saying.</p>

<p>There are many possible explanations:</p>

<p>1) They really are that one in however many thousand persons having an experience unlike that of virtually every other person who has ever posted here. </p>

<p>2) They have an axe to grind; i.e. they didn’t get into UNC and want to do everything they can to spoil everyone else’s party.</p>

<p>3) They are on the waitlist for UNC and are hoping they can dissuade some of you not to attend to further their own cause.</p>

<p>4) They are a ■■■■■.</p>

<p>Beware especially of new posters who are negative…on most message boards they are there to for only one reason…to create chaos.</p>

<p>OK, let’s get back to trying to be helpful during this stressful time. :)</p>

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<p>I understand your worries, but I am not ■■■■■■■■. I am a bit of a contrarian, though.</p>

<p>I’m already at UNC, though a bit distanced from the place. I more or less like it here, but I’m a white male and there are issues that people need to consider. UNC is far from perfect.</p>

<p>Let me respond to a couple of points:</p>

<p>ThoughtProvoking – you have deliberately (I hope) misunderstood some of the things I said.</p>

<p>Carolina is something like 62% girls, right? This is way closer to 2:1 (66% girls) than to 1:1 (50% girls). 62% girls means 1.65 girls per guy.</p>

<p>Also consider the fact that there are more gay men than lesbian women, and for straight girls it looks even worse than this.</p>

<p>I also said that you might think you’re at an all girls college in <em>certain situations</em>, ones where girls congregate anyway. Stereotpycally, girls get more involved in certain clubs and societies way more. Those clubs at UNC are practically all-female.</p>

<p>And even if it is 7,000 guys out of 17,000 undergrads… That means 7,000 guys to 10,000 girls. Even assuming they are all straight and all pair off … that would leave 3,000 girls (nearly a third of them) hanging there.</p>

<p>I have been to (very tame, mainstream) undergrad house parties here where there were 3 attractive girls dancing very raunchily, competing for the attention of one guy. It was a bit sad. Not that they shouldn’t dance raunchily if they want to, but the whole situation is a bit forced.</p>

<p>Now, this is not by itself a reason to come to UNC. In fact, you might even say that it’s not at all important. But it <em>is</em> a factor that you should consider, especially if you want to have an active dating life when you come here. (The situation is even worse for grad student girls, since so many grad student guys dip into the undergrad girl pool).</p>

<p>In my classes, to a large extent, the black people sit together and the white people sit together. There are only a few Asians and Europeans. This is largely replicated in the dining rooms, and even in the tour groups on campus at the moment. Just worth bearing in mind.</p>

<p>At a fundamental level, the university is a great experience if you are a white, middle-class or above, male. Everyone else should at least give it pause. It might (probably will) still be great for them, but there are certain issues to consider-- do you want do date and have a wide choice of partners? do you want to face a small amount of self-segregation? will you get tired of being one of the few foreigners, always being asked about your accent?</p>

<p>And this isn’t even to dip into certain issues – like the fact that the most prestigious fraternities and sororities admit practically no ethnic minorities.</p>

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<p>keepittoyourself / DavidWatts – major mathematical/logical error there on my part. My apologies. </p>

<p>For those interested in actual numbers, by the way, here they are: [Students</a> by Level, Race/Ethnicity, and Sex, Fall 2009 - Office of Institutional Research and Assessment](<a href=“http://oira.unc.edu/students-by-level-race-and-sex-fall.html]Students”>http://oira.unc.edu/students-by-level-race-and-sex-fall.html)</p>

<p>Fall 2009, there were 17,981 total undergraduates, with 10,604 females and 7,377 males. That is, 41% male. (And yes, 41% is slightly closer to 33% than it is to 50%… my bad).</p>

<p>keepittoyourself, I guess what I take issue with beyond the specific OOS/gender issues is the overall sense you are giving that UNC is somehow an unwelcome place for anyone who is not a white male from North Carolina. That was obviously very literally true a century ago, but today only about a quarter of UNC students are white males from North Carolina. </p>

<p>While there is some level of self-segregation along regional/racial/religious/social/sexual lines, I think this happens mostly when people first arrive at UNC and are seeking the comfort of what is familiar to their own experience. For people who are not part of the majority regional/racial/religious/social/sexual populations of UNC, I also think it is somewhat natural to find comfort and grounding in that familiarity. What is important is to also branch out so that you do not just have friends from your town/region or of your sexual orientation, etc.</p>

<p>Everyone obviously has their own experiences, and I’m sorry that you haven’t had the same cross-racial/ethnic/sexuality/socicoecomonic/religious interactions and friendships that I’ve had at Carolina. It really is unfortunate that that happens, because I agree with you that it deprives people of truly valuable intellectual and social growth opportunities.</p>

<p>In fact, I think it is precisely the diversity of UNC – and the depth with which people are often able to engage in discussions on these issues – which has provided me with some of my most intellectually stimulating and rewarding conversations inside and outside of the classroom.</p>

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<p>Thanks for your thoughtful reply. </p>

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<p>I don’t want to give away too much that might identify me, but I should reveal that I spent a lot of time at another college, before coming to UNC. My other college had a sex ratio close to 50%, and was far more diverse: probably at least 30% international students, and far less self-segregation. Now this sort of racial self-segregation is not particular to UNC, it is common to the United States in general (one of the things Americans sometimes notice when they go to Canada is that people from different races actually socialise). But it is something to bear in mind.</p>

<p>And it’s not just my experiences – next time you go into a big class, or into Lenoir or whatever, look at the racial compositions of the tables and groups of friends. I’d bet a reasonable amount that most of them will be relatively racially homogeneous. That you may have had interracial ‘friendships and interactions’ doesn’t really change things. I’m not saying that noone has friends from other races, but that, in general, there is a level of segregation here.</p>

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<p>As I said, I just don’t think that UNC is that diverse. What proportion of people here were born outside North Carolina, or the United States? I know that they don’t have much choice in this, being a state university, but it is a factor – compared to my other college, UNC is hugely homogeneous. How often do you hear people talking in other languages on campus here, and not faking it or practising a second language?</p>

<p>I know this will fan the flames, but if you want diversity – go to Duke. They might be less diverse socio-economically, but you will meet people from far more places and walks of life. </p>

<p>I didn’t mean to say that UNC is unwelcoming to nonwhite males – that is obviously not true. (Though the way people here sometimes mock Duke for being ‘full of Asians’ etc gives me cause to question how advanced the racial sentiments really are.) But there are issues here, and if you are nonwhite or nonAmerican, you will stand out, and not always in a good way. Even if everyone is very ‘welcoming’, it can be draining sometimes to be the only person of a certain background in a class or at dinner.</p>

<p>The very top of the social scale on this campus – the most exclusive fraternities/sororities, and perhaps that weird fake castle – are basically off limits to you if you’re not white.</p>

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<p>(I should add that my last sentence is spoken from ignorance, as someone outside the Frat/Sorority scene. I’m ready to be corrected on this point.)</p>

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<p>this is complete nonsense, and it upsets me that people unfamiliar with carolina will be reading this. with all due respect, i doubt youd be happy anywhere else.</p>

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<p>False- I was extremely happy in my other college, and I am pretty happy at Carolina. I just don’t have rose-tinted sunglasses (though they would be useful in the current weather).</p>

<p>Got any substantive disagreements?</p>

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<p>From <a href=“http://admissions.unc.edu/Life/Diversity/default.html[/url]:”>http://admissions.unc.edu/Life/Diversity/default.html:&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>“While 80 percent of our entering first-year students come from within our state, these North Carolinians themselves come from all over the country and the world. Last year’s entering North Carolinians were born in 47 different states and the District of Columbia and 61 different countries.”</p>

<p>Of course, that number does not count out of state students.</p>

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<p>These past couple of weeks, having spent time outside sitting on the quads and such, I’ve actually heard people talking in non-English languages several times as they walk by. I don’t remember specific examples, perhaps because I don’t actually think it’s that memorable or remarkable. (I’m also really bad at discerning which language someone is speaking, so that could also be a part of it :slight_smile: .)</p>

<p>I agree that UNC is not international enough, although I suppose that’s unavoidable when 80% of your class has to come from one particular state. Socioeconomic diversity should not be underestimated, though. </p>

<p>20% of this year’s first-year class is the first generation in their family to go to college, which often provides people with a very different set of experiences and perspectives than you find from the average Duke student (including international Duke students - since there is limited financial aid for international students at Duke, and at UNC for that matter, most international students are relatively well-off financially). </p>

<p>UNC also enrolls more black students than virtually any other major American research university. From the diversity page on the admissions site again: </p>

<p>“Over the last ten years, the percentage of African-American students in the entering class at Carolina has consistently ranked within the top three among all top-50 universities, public and private. We have had the highest percentage in six of those ten years—more than any other school.”</p>

<p>Obviously, as we’ve been discussing, diversity should be about more than just having people from different backgrounds on a campus. Diversity also means engagement with that difference. In my experience, and I think in most students’ experiences, that happens at Carolina.</p>