<p>Well, I actually have only read the original post and it looks like some stuff’s gone down so please do forgive me if I’m totally repeating what’s been said —</p>
<p>BUT</p>
<p>that piece (NYT) was absolutely bogus. Do not take it as a representation of what Carolina life is like. The end.</p>
<p>One thing I would like to stress about the gender gap at UNC. Yes, it exists. But 57% of all college students are female now. That’s nationwide.
[USATODAY.com</a> - College gender gap widens: 57% are women](<a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2005-10-19-male-college-cover_x.htm]USATODAY.com”>http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2005-10-19-male-college-cover_x.htm)</p>
<p>As far as diversity goes, 80% in-state really does not tell the whole story. There are plenty of students here that qualify as in-state but have lived in North Carolina for four years or less. I have no idea what the exact numbers are for that, but I’ve met a lot of students in those things. And I find it very hard to believe that a college had 30% international students. Not many would have one with that high of a percentage. </p>
<p>As far as Duke being diverse, why is it referred to University of New Jersey, Carolina Campus? Not bashing on Duke, it is a great school, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think that it is that much more diverse then Carolina. The main difference is fewer IS kids, and 10% more Asians instead of Caucasians. </p>
<p>I’d also recommend you read Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria? Who you hang out with is definitely your choice. If you want to hang out just Asian kids, you can do that. If you want to get lunch with a white female, coffee with a Latino male, and dinner with a half-Asian, half-African american female, you can do that too. I’m Asian and male, and I’ve never felt out of place here at UNC, and I’ve never felt unwelcome anywhere either. The closest I have felt to being unwelcome is when I met a friend at a sorority for lunch, and I was the only guy in the room with 30 girls. Strange feeling. And it wasn’t that I was welcome, just that I was the only guy.</p>
<p>Keepittoyourself, which groups specifically do you think are dominated by females? The only ones I can think of are the sororities…</p>
<p>Maybe I do have rose-tinted sunglasses, or in this case, Carolina-blue tinted ones, but I don’t think Carolina is perfect. I do think Carolina has its shortcomings. Parking on campus is a nightmare (which I like because I’m one of those crazy environmentalists). The food could be a little bit better. But I dare you to find me a college that isn’t perfect.</p>
<p>I really have become a firm believer that anyone can be happy at any college that they go to. It is just a matter of how much work you put into it. And I do think that you have to work to be unhappy at UNC.</p>
<p>Now I’ve read the thread - </p>
<p>I found the comment about the girls dancing raunchily actually pretty funny, and yes indeed I have come across that many a time in my career here at UNC. But, If I’m honest, in my memory they were mainly first year girls at frat parties (not girls dancing raunchily, but, in a pathetic way).</p>
<p>Are there desperate girls here? Yes, for sure. My goodness there are. But in my heart of hearts, I feel that the girls who are desperate here aren’t hurting because of any ratio. They’re just putting themselves in situations where it’s a little tough to stand out (if everyone wears the solid colored sun dress at the frat party, you’re not going to be too memorable… and… not many people go to frat parties looking for that special someone. self selecting crowd, if you will).</p>
<p>My point is, is yes, there is certainly a scene to Chapel Hill that I want no part of as a woman or as a college student. But - that’s not what Chapel Hill is really about, and it’s not a numbers thing. I say that because some of my best friends in high school at other colleges (and yes, even at those precious small LACs) seem to sometimes even have it worse. I’m not throwing stones - I would never claim to know what it’s like to attend any other place in the country (except Guilford College) because in my mind it takes at LEAST a year, really more than that, to even understand where you are - to see how things work together.</p>
<p>Another point: who says people here are even looking to date? I think it’s incorrect to look at it like, well, there are 10,000 girls, 7,000 dudes, they’ll all pair up and then there are 3,000 left. I have never seen any numbers on this, but I know of most of my friends, male and female, people aren’t necessarily looking to get tied down. That’s what happens after college. For now, we make friends. My freshman year NO ONE dated. Absolutely not, unless it was someone from home (and that never works out well). So this whole, either be desperate to get the guy, or give up, is a false choice. Dating is not the priority. Nor is it being skanky, just to clarify. Most people I know aren’t running around breaking hearts through one night stands. They’re just making friends and not pushing too hard to get together with people, that’s all.</p>
<p>Now you might wonder, “She just said the NYT article is bogus, but now it seems that she’s agreeing with it?!” Nope. There are a number of problems I have with it, and the first of which is that the the topic is so boring to me now. I remember reading a similar article when I was a senior in high school, and I wish I could remember the original source now. Essentially there was a book written asserting that women in colleges are now taking advantage of men sexually because of their ratio (strength in numbers, perhaps?). Really, you just can’t make a cause-and-effect argument like this dude was doing a. just from interviews without isolating any variables and b. when your subjects are five drunk girls at effing Bob’s of all places. Subject size, people! And before I hear ‘but he interviewed TEN girls! And three were sober in the pit!’ then my point has been missed. I understand his point, he wasn’t out there to actually figure out what the real situation was, or else he would have included some interesting data other than percentages, he was just starting a conversation…at Bob’s. It was just lazy, redundant journalism. Uninteresting and misleading.</p>
<p>keepittoyourself, I do find it interesting what you’re saying about diversity. As I said, I could never claim to know what it’s like at other schools, and so will trust you. But I do think that if someone wanted to really have a diverse group of genuine friends (avoiding tokenism) then student groups is the way to go. Yes, I think it’d be neat to have more internationals, but whatcha gonna do.</p>
<p>I will point out that I hear Mandarin every single day, I am not exaggerating. On the bus, in Lenoir and the pit, walking around, it hits my ears constantly and makes me so happy. I didn’t realize how thriving the Chinese community is in Chapel Hill until I got back from Beijing.</p>
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</p>
<p>Lots. Then again, one of my best friends is a native of Romania and his parents’ first language is Romanian…</p>
<p>**And I find it very hard to believe that a college had 30% international students. Not many would have one with that high of a percentage. **</p>
<p>Wikipedia would have helped you. 30% isn’t even that high. The London School of Economics has 65% international students. At McGill it’s over 20%.</p>
<p>Long time lurker, first time poster and lest I be accused of being a “■■■■■” I must first say that I have no stake in the game and no hidden agenda.</p>
<p>The male/female ratio issue is not exclusive to UNC and has become more problematic nationwide each year since somewhere around the 1997 admission cycle. Highly selective private schools can and often do a better job creating balance but more and more that balance is often achieved by denying a “better” candidate of the opposite sex in order to get it. Sadly, there is no good answer as the number of female applicants to all schools continues to rise.</p>
<p>Reading from afar, the post that seems to have "fanned the flames’ as the poster said makes me wonder if the poster is international in origin perhaps East Asian or Asian. This is based on all the comments regarding international students, white males and the comment about Duke’s diversity. I could be completely off base but that’s what I am reading into the posts because in looking at UNC and Duke enrollment facts, Asian diversity is really the only area in which UNC’s diversity really trails Duke.</p>
<p>The poster says they were very happy at their previous school but never says where it was or why they transferred. This could help shed some light on their perspective as well.</p>
<p>I think before we get more argumentative, knowing more about the poster would help understand their comments since they seem so at odd with the majority of posters here.</p>
<p>OK, I’m not going to type out another long response. I think a lot of you have good points, and there are things I’d say in response, but by now you probably get the picture.</p>
<p>To the person thinking about UNC: it is a very good school, and almost all the people here love it. But I am hardly alone in noticing the issues I’ve pointed out. You just have to make your own decisions! I hope that hearing both sides of the issue helps.</p>
<p>
I am considering UNC. Can anyone else expound on this?</p>
<p>Wikipedia would have helped you. 30% isn’t even that high. The London School of Economics has 65% international students. At McGill it’s over 20%.</p>
<p>2 schools? Neither in the US? The Ivies are pretty high for the US, and they are anywhere from 12-15% international. There are some in the US that are higher, but not that many…</p>
<p>I rest my case.</p>
<p>You rest your case?! I didn’t even see your bit of sleuthing until after my last post.</p>
<p>Notice my graceful exit post was 2 min after my post – no way I responded in under 2min.</p>
<p>Your case needs work.</p>
<p>I think the OP (keepittoyourself, anyway) is being more realistic than the other students in attendance at UNC, as well as any alumni posters, as I’ve heard these comments from multiple people in person and on various forums and websites. I think people like to pretend that what the OP is saying doesn’t exist. I can’t tell if they’re covering up the problem, or they’re really just ignorant to the problem. The issue the OP is presenting makes perfect sense in the scheme of things.</p>
<p>Look at it this way:
UNC is a state school in the state of North Carolina. They must accept a VERY high percentage of in-state freshman students in order to be in accordance with the law (or receive money from the state, I suppose). However, have you considered looking at the diversity of the state and arguing for it? It’s hard – it really is. Middle-class, white males and females? Sure, tons of them. I’m one of them. The state isn’t exactly known for diversity. Probably more for being traditionally Southern in the majority of the state than anything (Charlotte and the Tri-State area being somewhat of exceptions). </p>
<p>Would I have a problem fitting in at UNC? No way, because I’m in-state and have plenty of high school friends in attendance. However, only 2 or 3 of them are white. The rest are Asian. But, even if I was an OOS going to UNC, I’m not sure why people would think it’d be hard to make friends or whatever the case. No way would I not extend my friendship to ANYONE as long as they were genuinely friendly, no matter where they’re from, what race they are, religion, etc. I can’t really think of why you’d be excluded from anything because of your residency status. Like someone said earlier, no one really cares. However, you can’t not TRY to make friends and then whine about them not falling right into your lap. You must be socially outward, because for the most part, people will not approach you.</p>
<p>i definitely see validity in some of the points made but i found keepittoyourself’s in-depth take on the gender balance and dating at carolina completely ridiculous. using an example of three girls dancing at a house party for one guy, saying if everyone paired off - 3000 girls would be left, and not to mention stating there are more gays than lesbians, this is where i lose alll respect. to be honest its kind of pathetic. no one else sees carolina’s student body this way, which is why i say it again, you wouldnt be happy anywhere</p>
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</p>
<p>Wow, I’m not impressed with your arguments.</p>
<p>Firstly, it is just a fact (across the human population) that there are far more gay men than lesbian women.</p>
<p>And considering the numbers is just a way of bringing out the sad truth: that guys have way more power in the dating scene here than girls do. I really don’t understand why everyone is so resistant to admitting this. For example, noone denies that being a single woman in New York is tough (there are more single women than single men there – hence Sex and the City etc). Why are people so reluctant to admit that the same issue is in force here?</p>
<p>You say that noone sees carolina’s student body this way. Well you are wrong. Not only the new york times article, but lots of UNC girls will admit that they have a hard time on the dating scene here, especially in their more unguarded moments. Lots of UNC boys will admit that they get far more attractive girls here, and need to put in less effort, than they would if the ratio was 50/50.</p>
<p>After all, why else would the ratio be such a selling point for male prospective students? Why else than if it meant that they will have more choice and power in the dating market?</p>
<p>Or can you explain to me what else people might mean when they say the 62/38 ratio means UNC is heaven for male students?</p>
<p>Lots of people, rightly or wrongly, want to have a full life in college, and for many of them that includes dating. College is supposed to be a place where you meet lots of new people, and you can date and meet people of the opposite sex if you want. The cliche that it is harder to meet people once you get a job is very true.</p>
<p>Having also been at a more or less 50/50 college before, I can tell you that it makes a huge difference to the social atmosphere on campus. I think it is much more healthy. By coming to UNC (or a similarly-ratio’d college), a straight girl is at least potentially sacrificing that. This is more or less a fact, and the numbers bear this out.</p>
<p>OK, don’t like the house party example? How about the crowds of girls dressed up beautifully you occasionally see outside the fraternities, competing for the attention for a few slovenly boys in khaki shorts?</p>
<p>If I had a daughter, I would advise her to think very carefully before coming to UNC, for this reason. I don’t think that I would tell her not to come to UNC–there are loads of great things about it, and it is cheap as chips in-state–but I have heard many girls here obviously devastated in the sudden decline in their ability to attract men.</p>
<p>Wouldn’t you find that traumatic? Denying this is not helping anyone.</p>
<p>Oh, I should clarify – by ‘dating’ I don’t just mean people getting ‘tied down’ (heh heh). The gender ratio also affect more casual interactions – it also affects the dynamics of one night stands and sleazy Franklin st/house party pickups.</p>
<p>I’m glad I will be bringing my long-time girlfriend with me if I attend. Avoid that big cluster right from the start.</p>
<p>The ratio is 53/47 here, btw. PHEW.</p>
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<p>The tone and vitriol in your posts seems to point to some agenda; can you tell us what it is? You are the first person I have ever seen in over six years on these boards making such a big issue about the female/male ratio. You are always referring to the predominance of white males, have brought up gays and lesbians and now are talking about house party pick ups. Honestly, I’m confused…seriously…what IS your agenda?</p>
<p>How am I vitriolic, exactly?</p>
<p>And the reason I mentioned pickups is that a few people have written that they are not looking to date.</p>
<p>For example, cloying wrote</p>
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</p>
<p>And I was just trying to make the point that it’s not confined to ‘serious’ dating.</p>
<p>Oh, and if I am the only person you’ve heard making a big deal of this, then you have been sheltered. Many current UNC people would not consider the things I’m saying anything other than totally obvious.</p>
<p>Thanks to xMastemah for backing me up on this point – these are not unusual things to say.</p>
<p>I predicted this would happen about a month ago in another post.</p>
<p>It’s almost comical because every year around this time some new poster pops up with something that is controversial, not a majority opinion, and clearly designed to try to dissuade people from attending UNC. It’s usually couched in a way that says “I just want everyone to know that this isn’t as perfect a place as others would have you believe” and they then proceed to offer a picture of Carolina that makes people wonder as others have asked “are we going to the same school?” </p>
<p>You really are making this a far bigger an issue that it is in reality. It may feel like that from your perspective and there may be others who feel that way as well but you and they are certainly not the majority at UNC. I am not putting down your feelings because for you they are real but please don’t try to make them represent even a significant number of students at UNC because that just isn’t the truth.</p>
<p>You need to understand that NO school is perfect and not everyone is a perfect fit for every school. That said, I have yet to meet in person someone who has had feelings that even approach what you are saying.</p>
<p>I don’t equate cloying’s comments about people not wanting get tied down or not dating freshman year to being anything remotely close to talking about random pick ups or as you called them “one night stands and sleazy Franklin st/house party pickups…”</p>
<p>Sorry to say but one night stands and random pick ups occur on EVERY campus in the US (with the possible exception of fundamentalist religious schools) and they did even back in the dark ages when I was in school. If you take the time to read things like the Yale Daily News you’ll find that they (random pick ups and one night stands) are far more of the socially expected norm there (and at other Ivies) than traditional dating. </p>
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</p>
<p>How is he backing you up? He is a future potential student who is going by what you are saying…he has no first hand knowledge…</p>
<p>You are all over the place with your arguments and seriously, I am confused. Why did you leave the school you liked so much that had the 50/50 ratio?</p>
<p>How am I all over the place with my arguments? I think I’ve pretty consistently outlined the following positions:</p>
<p>UNC is a great school, and most people love it here. But be aware that it is relatively homogeneous, and racial self-segregation and the sex ratio are issues that people notice. So if you are nonwhite, foreign or female, then you should bear these considerations in mind. But you might well still decide that UNC is the place for you.</p>
<p>Have I said anything that would contradict this?</p>
<p>And has anyone answered my point about the ethnic exclusivity of the top fraternities and sororities, and that castle thing?</p>