While I agree in principle, I do think that act scores where even the top 25% are below college preparedness and the threshold is below 20 is worrisome.
@sseamom Fisk has much higher test scores than Delaware St., as do a number of HBUs. Some are fairly high. Howard has a 25-75 of 21 and 27, which is identical to Ole Miss, which i want my kids to consider. But some HBUs have really dreadful test scores, and it is not something to be overlooked.
I am always torn on test scores, my best student overall struggled most with the ACT and SAT tests for some reason – my worst (the one who didn’t make it past freshman year) did a great job on the tests.
@EarlVanDorn My daughter got a 30 on the ACT
Yes, that’s what I’m saying, @toomanyteens , though of course it pays to investigate the specific college and classes/programs. That woman I mentioned above with the Yale degree was at Fisk for a masters, but started at Norfolk State University, another HBCU. The HONORS program there requires a 3.0 GPA and a 1450 total SAT (old version). Obviously it’s possible to be a very bright person coming out of such schools and going on to top colleges and universities with success.
@sseamom I am not sure how to assess all that! My daughter is an automatic admit to the honors program- she would be getting a platinum award for academic scholarship
Admission Criteria
Incoming Freshmen and Transfer Students
Incoming freshmen and transfer students may apply for admission into the Delaware State University Honors Program at the same time they apply for admission to the University. Candidates for the Honors Program may apply by simply completing a short Honors Program application and sending all other application materials to the DSU Honors Program. A prospective honors student must have:
Admission to DSU without conditions;
A GPA of 3.25 or higher (on a 4.0 scale);
An SAT combined score of at least 1050 in Mathematics and Critical Reading, with at least 450 in each section; OR an ACT composite score of at least 22 in Mathematics and Critical Reading; and,
Approval of the Honors Program.
Platinum, Gold or Silver Award Recipients
Applicants who have received a platinum, gold or silver award to attend Delaware State University are automatically given admittance into the DSU Honors Program. An official Honors Program application and all application materials must be submitted to qualify.
All I can say is to go see it for yourself, as that’s not a school I am familiar with. I do know that at every school we saw, even the ones with very low GPA and test score requirements, we met plenty of people who were intelligent and successful and professors who had lofty pedigrees but chose for various reasons to teach there.
There is a GULF between the reading proficiency indicated by a 22 and a 30 composite score. A student with 22 understands what s/he’s reading, but the discussion would not take tha for granted and would not start with implicit, references, etc. The type of written work that is possible for someone with a 22 reading score indicates is also very different from a college paper. It’d be a problem for all arts, humanities, and social science classes. The fact 80-90% score below proficiency in reading is what would worry me most because it affects most classes, for content, level of discourse, expectations, participation - and since not all classes would be honors only, it’d affect your daughter seriously.
For math,a score in the 19-22 range is just a matter of probably not having taken/understood math beyond Geometry, perhaps Algebra2 perhaps not. Students can continue the sequence, for them it’ll delay progress bu it won’t directly affect students enrolled in calculus. A student who’s taken and succeeded in precalculus (and perhaps Calc AB) would likely start right away in second year math classes.
@MYOS1634 I would make sure she did the honors program so she would be in class with like students for those courses
Check the Honors pogram: sometimes, it’s only ONE course per semester. It seems to be the case at Delaware State(6 classes over 3 years + 1 honors thesis colloquium senior year).
Look into it more in-depth to see how many honors classes are offered each semester. A “good” honors college would offer several dozens, anda least one in each department.
OP is trying to consider a lot of factors - athletics, academics, finances, location. This is just one option, but the school is getting big points in the finance and team categories, and the family likes the location. Maybe it is the best option, and her D will be tops in academics and tops in athletics. It also feels good to be offered a big scholarship. The school and coach really want her, and that really is a consideration.
If this is all the family can afford, the decision is rather easy - take the money. If the family can pay something, then they have to decide if they are willing to pay $10k for a school that is more selective, or has a better program, or if they can pay $20k for a school with a more competitive team, with nice dorms, that is closer to home. The daughter also has to evaluate the team. At this school, she will play all the time and be a leader, but the team is not going to win much (really, it just isn’t going to win). At another school, she might not be a starter but the team might win more. My daughter looked at a school where she wouldn’t have been a starter and that team happened to win the national championship this year. Hard to say if that would have been a better experience than where she’s at and playing all the time (but the school wasn’t right for daughter). We have a friend who is at a top program, D1, but never plays. I don’t know how happy she is about the team but she’s getting a good education.
@MYOS1634 - there appears to be a fairly large list of honors courses with specific classes for those students. But ye a good point for sure… and yes @twoinanddone there are many factors to consider- this student is the 4th of our 5 and the next college student is right on her heels!
Perhaps more important when evaluating a college academically would be the extent and quality of the courses (particularly the upper level ones) in the subjects of her potential majors of interest.
@ucbalumnus How would a person do such an evaluation?
If you know someone familiar with the subject (e.g. had studied it in college), s/he may be able to help (if you are willing to name the major(s) of interest, perhaps other posters on the forum can help). You may also want to compare the offerings with (a) what other schools that are “well known” for that subject offer, and (b) what PhD programs in that subject expect as preparation for the PhD program. If syllabi, book lists, and old exams for the courses are available, you (or the person with subject matter knowledge) can try comparing them with those from other schools.
Actually I don’t find it “interesting” that a white student is questioning attending a HBU, when we rarely hear minority students question attending PWIs. I think that in light of the speech from Jesse Williams at the BET awards and recent multiple accusations of “cultural appropriation” it would be very prudent for a minority white student to consider the ramifications of attending a HBU. I think, and of course I may be wrong because I am white, that most minority students at PWIs consider the racial diversity of a campus before making a decision, I just don’t think it is verbalized. While certainly not on the same caliber of consideration…you betcha my daughter considered the ramifications of attending a school with a predominate male population. What I find “interesting” is why white men seem oblivious to it all?
@ucbalumnus – I am pretty sure she won’t be going for a PhD, that said, she is looking to major in something related to New Media- a computer science/web and graphic design type major
CS courses at DSU are listed here (the 35-xxx courses, though some 20-xxx courses may be applicable to media emphasis):
https://www.desu.edu/mathematics-natural-sciences-and-technology/it-computer-science-course-descriptions
The department appears to have good coverage of the usual upper level CS topics, but you may want to check the schedules to see how often each course is offered. However, it does not seem like there are any course home pages on its web site to attempt to make an assessment on the depth and rigor of the courses.
I went to an HBCU for undergrad - Spelman College, which is located in a consortium of five HB institutions, three of them predominantly undergrad (Spelman, Morehouse, and Clark Atlanta University). While I didn’t have any white women in my class or that I knew at Spelman, there were a few white students at both Morehouse and CAU - and since our social scenes were pretty integrated I knew and was friends with some of them. The valedictorian of Morehouse the same year I graduated was a young white man I knew.
I only have experience from my perspective - I’m black - but I do agree with the assessment that HBCUs are places that are made for African Americans, both historically and now. There are a lot of traditions and cultural things that are part and parcel of the history of the school. For example, at Spelman all first-year students have to take a one-year sequence called African Diaspora and the World, which is exactly what it sounds like - a historical and social-science oriented study of the history of the African diaspora in its many forms. A lot of classes across many fields will have a unique focus on African American issues, and it won’t just be one unit - it’ll be a thread that runs through the curriculum. For me as a young black woman, it was excellent, because I got to appreciate that my people were present in and contributed to the history and development of the U.S. (and the world) even though we’re often erased from history. For a young white person who’s interested in that kind of thing, and generally open to those kinds of experiences, that could be a great and powerful thing too. (And I mean, all the other academic stuff is the same. Biology is biology, math is math, psychology is psychology, art is art, etc.)
Socially she’d just have to feel comfortable being in the minority, not just skin-color-wise but culturally as well depending on where she’s coming from and her interests.
Test scores are not the only indicator of college readiness, and there’s emerging evidence that for African Americans and Latinos they’re not even a good indicator of college readiness. Black and Latino high school students with similar grades and other achievements get lower SAT scores than their white and Asian counterparts; and Black and Latino college students with lower SAT scores graduate at similar rates, and perform just as well, as white and Asian counterparts with SAT scores 100-200+ points higher. (There’s also some emerging evidence that SAT scores aren’t such good indicators of college readiness for anyone, white and Asian students included. High school GPA is a much better predictor, and kids with strong test scores but lower GPAs graduate less frequently than kids with strong GPAs in high school but lower or missing SAT scores.)
OP, would your daughter be eligible to receive need based finaid at D3 schools with good aid? Did you try to run NPCs? It seems you will have multiple kids in college simultaneously. ACT 30 + LAX should give your daughter some options.