<p>I am positive that I want to study architecture and need some feedback on my college list:</p>
<p>Reaches: </p>
<p>Yale (#1 likely SCEA)
Rice (#2 by far)
Cornell (Considering)
Slight Reach: UVA (I'm out-of-state)</p>
<p>Matches: </p>
<p>Virginia Tech
Georgia Tech
Pratt (Considering)
Miami of Ohio (Coinsidering)
U Miami (Considering)</p>
<p>Safties: </p>
<p>Auburn
SCAD (Loose Safety)</p>
<p>So what do you think?</p>
<p>It seems you are seeking a BArch based on most schools on your list. Please be aware that Yale is not a BArch but a great BA option.</p>
<p>I also don't understand how one can give feedback on your list because building a college list relates to one's qualifications, as well as personal college criteria, neither of which we know about you. We can't even tell you if the schools are a reach, match, or safety. </p>
<p>Maybe you are just asking about these schools?</p>
<p>The type of degree doesn't matter too much, since I want to get an M.Arch eventually, but I was just wondering if this collection of schools was well chosen.</p>
<p>I'm not talking about my qualifications. I have tried to look for schools with reputable programs, double major options, and "intimacy": I would love to go to a small private school like Davidson or Wake Forest or W&L but very few schools like that offer Arch programs. So basically I'm left with Ivy-league schools (difficult for anyone to get into) or Art Schools (seemingly impractical).</p>
<p>if you go for the b.arch, you wouldn't want to get the m.arch later...cause it's the same degree and i'm sure after 5 years of hard work, you'll either want to get out or learn something else. there's always the m.arch 2 but that's if you're interested in teaching</p>
<p>If you don't care that much about the type of undergrad degree...BArch or BA.....there are definitely many BA colleges for you to explore. My own kid only wanted a BA + MArch path and her entire college list for undergrad was made up of BAs in architecture. So, there are plenty out there and they are not all Ivies (though some are). My D's list only overlapped your list by one school: Yale. I don't agree with you that you are left with Ivies or art schools if you opt to go the BA + MArch route. But if you want a BArch, then no problem.</p>
<p>EDIT....I cross posted with sashimi and I think right now the options you should think about are BA + MArchI or a BArch. If you do a BArch, perhaps later you could get a MArchII but you do not have to in order to be an architect. The BArch and the MArchI are both professional degrees.</p>
<p>thanks for the replies. BA/B.Arch makes no difference to me whatsoever, but with a BA, the M.Arch would allow me to practice professionally and with a B.Arch, the M.Arch would simply give me better qualification in the opinion of most of the architects I have spoken with, and, as sashimi noted, would make it easier to teach should I decide to. (And I'd like to keep that option open.) </p>
<p>I've also considered getting a BSE, then M.Arch but have recieved no feedback on how practical that might be, so for now I'm sticking to bona fide Arch programs.</p>
<p>If I may, soozievt, what were some of the BA+MArch schools on your D's list?</p>
<p>My daughter's undergrad list of colleges was (she only wanted a BA in arch, not a BArch):</p>
<p>Yale
Princeton
Brown
Penn
Tufts
Smith
Conn College
Lehigh</p>
<p>She is attending Brown (rising senior). She will be applying to Architecture grad schools to earn a MArch this fall, including many of the top ones, but I don't wish to write out that list and it is not that relevant to this discussion.</p>
<p>i was referring to m.arch2, not m.arch..they're two very different degrees. you wouldn't want to do the same degree all over again if you were to do the m.arch after the b.arch.
the b.arch is well regarded and employers typically have no problem hiring b.arch because b.arch students have had longer years in architectural training compared to m.arch students. also, a b.arch and a m.arch, unless you're super rich, will leave you in serious debt, especially if you're opting for ivy schools..and with an architect's salary, that's going to be hard. don't worry too much about job qualifications...b.arch students do just fine</p>
<p>Well, if you want to go a small private school with a good architecture program then Rice is probably a really good match for you. It's undergrad is smaller than my high school (less than 3,000 students).
My list when I was applying to colleges last year overlapped yours by three schools: Rice, Cornell and Yale. I applied SCEA to Yale too. I fact, I applied to a good mix of BA and B.Archs just in case I changed my mind later along the line. In fact, my final choice of college had as much to do with the degree offered as the college itself and where I wanted to live for the next four/five years.</p>
<p>thanks for the info. I'm afraid Princeton is probably going to be out of my league since its only RD this year; Brown and Penn I have looked into and decided that they were not exactly the best fits. The others I was not aware of, although I did know Tufts had some sort of urban planning program that might lead into Architecture, so thanks for that. sashimi46, I agree with your last post. I wasn't specifically referring to any M.Arch degree (I or II or III) just the idea of a second degree, whatever will be applicable to my situation (however that ends up!) Does anyone know of schools other than Tulane that offer 4 yr. B.Arch degrees? I think I have that right- usu. it's 5 yrs. Or would that be kind of risky? I think the industry would frown on such an unusual program.</p>
<p>thanks isabel89, that's exactly my route and you are right, Rice seems like a really good match. I am going to arrange an overnight visit and get an interview at the School of Architecture (hopefully). Did you do this?</p>
<p>in the architecture industry, a b.arch is good enough. getting a second degree in architecture won't give you a higher starting salary.... the portfolio that you produce is far more important. if you go for a second degree, i would opt for a different degree to expand your knowledge</p>
<p>4 year b.arch programs aren't common because it is really hard to do a b.arch in 4 years. i would also not recommend rushing your education...
you typically need 4 years of studio and a thesis year...it's really hard squeezing that into 4 years</p>
<p>judging from your SN, you seem to like le corbusier. in that case, i would highly recommend cornell</p>
<p>yeah kinda like richard meier! lol</p>
<p>You are vastly over-estimating the value of a BA Arch. It is nothing like a BArch.</p>
<p>A BArch has 12 to 16 hours of design studio class--per week--on top of other courses. A BA Arch might have two to four studio course over four years and those studio courses only meet for three to four hours a week.</p>
<p>There is no comparison in design training. The BArch student gets more design training in the first semester than the BA Arch gets in four years. Full stop.</p>
<p>The BA Arch goes into the lower MArch I program for three years and, of those six semesters, only SIX are spent in thehigher design studios in the company of MArch II students. The MArch I student gets three semesters to train with the competition, competition who have been training for ten semesters before they arrive at graduate school--and probably two to four semesters of job training to boot. Imagine what it will be like, with three semesters of design stidio under your belt, to put your work up against peers with nine times the training. That is an idea of what the MArch I students are up against in grad school. It's the veritable steep curve and then some.</p>
<p>The BA/MArch I choice is a fine one--but go in with your eyes pinned open. The BA Arch is not similar to 'pre-med'. The training is nowhere near the equivalent of a BArch. If you do decide to go that route, make sure you try to get in as many summer opportunities as possible--as soozie's D has done.</p>
<p>That's a great idea, doing an overnight visit and an interview. I live in Houston, and my older sister goes to Rice so I had already stayed on campus a bunch of times before my interview. Some tips for you: schedule your interview for a monday, wednesday, or friday because that's when the studio classes are held and so you can visit some of the studios and talk to students. Visiting the freshman studio was what defintely convinced me that Rice was for me :) We'll be very friendly to you, most Rice people love prospective students. Oh, and don't be alarmed if you have pretty short interview. Mine as only 20 minutes long and I was worried that I had no chance to get in since it was that short. Now I know that it's pretty common, and I'm not the only one who had a short interview. Good luck!</p>
<p>Thanks isabel, I am looking forward to it. Cheers, you have perfectly articulated one of my primary concerns. (That's why Yale is the only school on my list with a BA- I am more a match for the school than the specific arch program.) Then again, it would be excrutiatingly difficult, it seems, to double major with a B.Arch, although I guess I could let it slide. Realistically, that is probably what I will end up doing, but of course there are numerous examples of successful architects who took the same route as soozievt's D. And to go even further there are people like Maya Lin who have all sorts of degrees.</p>
<p>except maya lin is not an architect...</p>
<p>if an architect is who you want to be</p>
<p>There is no question that a BA is not the same as a BArch in terms of the major. These are different routes. My D wanted the BA + MArch route for several reasons. So, I am definitely not likening the BA to a BArch whatsoever. However, this poster IS interested in BA programs as well and seemed to not realize that there are many out there if this is the route he/she wants, followed by a MArch. </p>
<p>To the OP....Tufts has a Major in Architectural Studies. It also has one in Architectural Engineering and then a minor in either (you could combine both Major/Minor or even with another subject if you wanted). My D loved it. It is also my alma mater. I know nothing of your academic profile. I will assume if you are applying to Yale, you are a tippy top student. I am not sure why Princeton would be off your list.....it is as hard to get into Yale as Princeton. Actually, my D was waitlisted in RD at Princeton, and deferred EA and denied RD at Yale, and so she came out ahead at Princeton. My D preferred Brown over Princeton, however. At Brown, you can also take arch classes at RISD, by the way, and she has. Penn, Lehigh, and Conn College have nice BA in Arch programs. </p>
<p>If you are looking at BArch....what about Carnegie Mellon? RISD? USC?</p>
<p>Also, are you sure that Tulane's BArch is only four years? I really think it is five, though admit to not researching it. I say this because last fall my D did an arch program abroad and her roommate was in the Tulane BArch program and I know hers was five years.</p>
<p>One thing I disagree with Cheers about is that she says that a BA in Architecture is not equivalent to pre-med. But in some ways, it is. Both are courses laying the groundwork and prerequisites for professional study in their respective fields, as opposed to entering a professional graduate program with NO background in the field. A BA in Arch involves study of arch history, design, math, physics, studio art, computer rendering, environmental science, and so on just like pre-med has courses that are building a background for further professional study. In fact, a BA in Arch is often termed "Pre-Architecture." When my D was studying arch abroad, for example, in Syracuse's Pre-Architecture (actually called this) program, they indeed were doing design studio, arch drawing, arch history, etc. This is not the same as NO background in the field and only studying English, Psych, and French, for example. Nobody said it was anything like a BArch....it isn't. But it is akin to pre-med.....it is even more than pre-med because with pre-med, that is not even a major/concentration, but just some prerequisite classes. Pre-Arch in a BA in Architecture program is a major concentration in this subject and pre-training/background to professional training in a MArch program. So, I am not clear why you say it is not like pre-med. It is more like pre-med is to med school than studying English is to graduate Arch school. </p>
<p>People don't choose a BA because it is "better" than a BArch. There are other very good concrete reasons to elect this path. It is not meant to be the same path. But it is a viable one and is an option for those who don't want to commit to a major at age 17 that they haven't yet experienced, do not want to devote 3/4's of their undergraduate coursework to, who want breadth in their undergraduate education, etc.</p>
<p>sashimi,
It was my understanding that Maya Lin got a BA from Yale, then an M.Arch, then a DFA , but I could be wrong. You are correct that she doesn't design buildings. Although Leon Krier is an example of an "architect" who has only one structure to his name (I believe.)</p>
<p>Soozeivt,
I am glad to see someone with a perspective from the BA-M.arch track. Like isabel89 previously noted, she chose different schools with different types of programs so that she could keep her options as open as possible and not have to force that decision on herself too soon. Really I am just looking for a school that has a solid program (whatever kind it may be) where I will feel comfortable and happy. (I nkow, I know: Thank you capt. obvious!) Please don't think I am weighing one KIND of program over another. </p>
<p>Yes, I am fairly sure that Tulane (though it may be some other school) has made its B.Arch 4 years for some unkown reason, and I and most of the other ppl on this thread doubt the validity of such a speedy degree. </p>
<p>You mentioned majors in Architectural Studies and Architectural Engineering. Aside from Tufts, I think Duke has such an option within its BSE, and that would also give me another in-state safety (U of AL). In fact, that is what my parents are really pushing me towards, hoping that I could maybe go in-state for free then use some saved up stipends (assuming I could get one of the more lucrative scholarships) to help pay for an Master's at Harvard,Yale, etc. But that seems like it would just be more schooling than the other routes. However it deserves noting that many of the professionals/educators I have met with explained to me that among the bigger issues in the field is the effective communication btw Architect and Contractor/Const. Firm/Engineers/Consultants, etc. Perhaps a more varied education might give me an edge in this regard. However- I don't want to shoot myself in the foot and be unable to get into grad school with a non-architecture degree. (Even though it is possible.)</p>
<p>What do you think?</p>
<p>Corbusi....so much in selecting colleges and options is your personal preference and not "shoulds." For instance, BArchs are great if you are positive you know you want to study architecture and are willing to have a major chunk of your education be focused in one area. For many, this is definitely the way to go. For my own kid (I'm using this as an example of how it is about personal preferences/criteria)....she could not know for certain she wanted to go into architecture when applying to college, but only that she was leaning that way and had done some things (arch internship, drafting/CAD independent study, research papers on arch topics, art classes) in high school to explore the field. However, architecture is not a "subject" you get to study in high school....at least not where we live and so it is hard to know with 100% certainty that one wants to commit to a field they haven't yet truly studied much. My D knew she might want this field, however, so she did pick colleges that offered this as a major (BA schools). I have a kid in another field who entered a professional undergraduate degree program which involved a commitment ahead of time and also where 70% of her curriculum is in the program, just like with BArch programs basically. But in her case, she KNEW she wanted to go into that field as she has been immersed in it her entire life and was able to know. My arch kid could not make a similar committment at 17, even if she was leaning that way (and in the end, IS going onto become an architect). She also wanted to study other subjects and have a liberal arts type of degree. She wanted a certain type of undergraduate experience. Some also believe that having such an education makes them better at their profession later on....more to draw upon, if you will. She also is very involved in things beyond her academics, which would be nearly impossible in a BArch program. These other huge activity commitments are important to her as well. She would prefer to hunker down 24/7 in a studio in grad school. She loves doing that now but wants to do other things as well as an undergrad. So, this is the kind of thing to think through. Her chosen path makes sense for her preferences and personal criteria. Many who do BAs go onto very good MArch schools. </p>
<p>Some who do a BA and go onto MArch programs, major in something other than architecture. That is a viable path but I think it would be a little harder in some ways, unless it was in something related like studio art or engineering or something like art history. I mean it really helps to experience architecture courses enough to be able to make that kind of commitment to graduate work and also to have some skills going into it so as not to be entirely new to the field (though they do take students from other majors in undergrad). It helps to have a background in architectural history, math, physics, engineering, environmental studies, art/drawing, design, computerized design, and architecture design. After all, you do have to create a portfolio to get into grad school! You have to demonstrate interest and commitment to the field as well. </p>
<p>I think you could study arch engineering and go onto a MArch program. If my D had gone to Tufts, I think she may have chosen to do the major in Arch Studies and possibly done a minor in Arch Engineering but who knows. There are options there for sure. At one time she considered engineering but realized she much preferred architecture (happens to be good at math and science too). It seems to me that doing a five year engineering undergrad degree would be just too much school. </p>
<p>I think if you want to commit to a five year BArch, then do so...but be very prepared to commit, to focus in one area, and to have a portfolio to present. But the other alternative for you, if the option fits, is to do a BA in an arch major program. You could do engineering but again, seems like so much school. I think an arch type undergrad BA degree would be good for the reasons I gave earlier, with hopes of getting a MArch, if you do not wish to do the BArch. I see the two good options being BA in an arch type of undergrad major (or similar) + MArch or a five year BArch (which you really do not need to also do a MArch but always have that option). It is a matter of thinking through your personal preferences. My D did visit Cornell and liked it but then decided to not go the BArch route. She is extremely happy with her college and the type of education she is getting. She has supplemented her major at her school with courses at RISD, an arch study abroad program in Italy through Syracuse's Arch program, and a summer arch intensive at Harvard Graduate School of Design, and a summer internship in an architectural firm in Paris, where she is at present. She has also chosen to do an Honors Thesis in architecture. This has worked for her. It is not the right path for all people. These are the kinds of decisions only you can make. Either path will lead to becoming an architect. Students at her school have been successful in getting into very good MArch schools. Decide which sort of experience YOU want to have.</p>