Last year, two kids in my school got accepted to Harvard and Stanford. Amazingly enough, they werent the brightest or had the most extracurriculars. The funny thing is that they both took 4 months to write their essays. And they wrote it together. With their essays they each sent it out to different schools that did not conflict. The one kid sent his stuff to commonapp schools whereas the other kid did not. Now my 1 friend and I are thinking the same thing. We are neither the smartest nor have the greatest personality in our class. My question is is this a feasible idea? Is there any trouble involved? I can’t imagine that colleges actually have the time to check up every essay with every school due to the huge numbers of essays out there. Do ivy leagues and good western colleges compare each others essays?? We have seen two kids do it already and the result has been spectacular. We are the best of friends so any essay would be very personal to both of us. We are both in the same clubs, interests, etc. Can anyone shed some light on this issue?
<p>It's cheating, but it seems like you've already decided not to care about the ethics of it.</p>
<p>You probably won't get caught, but I hope you do.</p>
<p>How stupid are you?</p>
<p>It's cheating. I will appluad the original two for resourcefulness (assuming they thought of the idea themselves), but you aren't even going to get esteem for being original. I hope that you end up a college with a strict honour code (cf. Stanford) where the lure of unsupervised exams leads you to try the same thing with another friend and you get caught, tried by the honour council and unceremoniously kicked out. </p>
<p>Having said that, when I was applying, three friends and I sat down and each checked and critiqued each other's essays, which led to a fairly similar writing style (though all the ideas, of course, were both different and original). We applied to similar colleges and were accepted and rejected individually. There is a fine line between original work and collaborative work, and I don't believe we crossed it. There is no doubt, however, that if you do what you suggest, you will cross it, and will be lying when you sign your applications at the place were it states: "I certify that the work in this application is original and factual" (or something along those lines). </p>
<p>I know that admission to the most selective universities has a very big element of luck, and that it is tempting to want to raise your odds. I know that, aside for the most exceptional students, not cheating or lying could mean that you have a much lower chance of admission, leading to the win-win situation: if you cheat and get caught, you get rejected; if you don't cheat, you get rejected. The test of it, though, is whether you are happy living with yourself after that. I want my accomplishments to be earned - that is to say, I want to know that I deserved what I got. I don't know how you feel.</p>
<p>As an aside about those two who were accepted: I highly doubt their joint essay(s) tipped the scales overwhelmingly in their favour. An essay worthy of a Booker prize winner will not get you into either Harvard or Stanford (or Yale or Princeton or MIT or Caltech and so on ad nauseum) unless it is backed up with the proper grades, recommendations and dedication (to extra curriculars, service, music, etc.). Indeed, an outstanding essay backed by mediocre grades will raise a red flag and the admissions committee are not forgiving should they find out that an applicant cheated on their application. They have so many qualified candidates, they will not hesitate to reject any applicant they have doubts about. </p>
<p>I hope that you are not seriously considering cheating. If you do, just remember that the shame of getting kicked out of Stanford for cheating is infinitely greater than the pride of having gotten in the first place.</p>
<p>I agree that 2 people sending the same essay is obviously cheating, but this situation raises an interesting point. What is collaboration? Where does it stop? What is plagiarism? With so much emphasis in colleges nowadays on improving writing skills, having writing assistants, tutors, etc, what constitutes your own work? Is a college admission essay a different situation than an essay for a class, or a column in the school paper? Interesting points.</p>
<p>I understand that many of you may think that this is cheating. I am only looking for what everyone else is thinking. But let me give you some of my points.</p>
<p>Cangel raises a very interesting point...What is cheating...How far can you go?</p>
<p>Now let me ask you this...why is it cheating when my friend and I sit together to write our essay...both spending the same amount of time...noone smarter than the other</p>
<p>In this modern age, the college application process has become a money-making scheme! Look at the CC site itself. It offers essay edits and college counseling. Look at the tons of sites out there and real life businesses that offer to edit your essays for a good amount of money. In other cases, how about when a teacher edits your essays. What if that teacher sits down with you everyday giving you tips, ideas, and a writing style you would never had. Is that cheating? What do you call that? Almost none of these essays nowadays are a student's original work. It has been edited, given suggestions, etc. Again look at the CC site with multiple users posting essays receiving a MULTITUDE of other users giving help and advice.</p>
<p>In my school, how fair is it that a brother of a Harvard student is using his brother's essays for applying to college into every school but Harvard. We all know he isn't going to get caught. It is impossible, unfeasible, and not worth the money to check everyone's essays...just think for just the top 25 schools in America, you have a MINIMUM of 250,000 apps, an absolute MINIMUM. The number of cross checks needed is FAR over 1E15. Then think about essays received from years ago. We would like to just know the risks.</p>
<p>Before you criticize me, please take the above paragraphs into consideration. I strongly believe what we are doing is not cheating. After all, we are not plagarizing but collaborating together to create a few general essays easily appicable to any college. I am not paying for a service to edit my essays like some do. But it's our work. Some here may think we are horrible people and we are cheating little kids. But, we have our own strong ethics that we follow and live life by.</p>
<p>HS kid, now that you have elaborated a little more, I think you may still be crossing the line from critiquing to cheating, based on the phrase "our essays". It should be "your" work, not "our" work. I think some of the editing services cross the line, too, by the way. Perhaps the litmus test should be could you both turn in the essays to the same teacher for a grade - if you can, you've edited, not cheated.</p>
<p>Will you get caught? Most likely no.
Is it right? No.</p>
<p>If you are prepared to write at the bottom of your essays, "Authors: Joe Blow and Bob Smith," giving proper credit to each other, go ahead.</p>
<p>HSKid,
the other type of trouble could be down the road. Cheating on the essay is a secret that you will have to carry to your grave, as will your partner, and any friends that know about it. If your colleges find out about the plagarism in the near future, you will be denied admission and blacklisted. Degrees have beened recinded over plagarism. If anyone talks to the school, EVER, your future is at risk.</p>
<p>Why do you even need to write and submit the same essay? why not each write own essay, bounce off each other?</p>
<p>"HSKid,
the other type of trouble could be down the road. Cheating on the essay is a secret that you will have to carry to your grave, as will your partner, and any friends that know about it." -ohio mom</p>
<p>hahaha, not to be rude, but the "carry to your grave" part is a bit overdramatic. i know if i did what HSkids 3 is doing and got in to stanford or harvard, i wouldn't care what i had done to get there, right or wrong. </p>
<p>with that said, i still think its kinda lame to do that. but if you really want to, noone's stopping you.</p>
<p>I can understand what HSKids are doing. With all the stress on kids these days, everyone wants the best education, make the best money. Statistics clearly show a HUGE difference between say a state school and an ivy school in terms of salary, job advancement, and respect. With that much said, I am not sure what HSKids is doing is right or not simply because there is too much that I don't know so I cannot make that judgment. I don't think what they're doing is as bad as this <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=23987%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=23987</a>
Where people are lying about their ECs or from a USNews article, a valedictorian copied an essay straight from essayedge.com and applied to Pomona...and the irony of this is that SEVERAL kids applying there from all over the world had the same essay! They do not get blacklisted from colleges but they receive a quick rejection so hey oh well.</p>
<p>This was especially interesting...
'Rutgers University Prof. Donald McCabe, an authority on academic dishonesty, asked more than 2,100 college students if all the information on their applications has been factually correct. One in 50 answered no. McCabe suspects the true number is higher, because the line between packaging oneself smartly and stretching the truth can be so blurry. 'You get a lot of students who feel they suffer disadvantages," he says, "so they make the playing field more level.'"</p>
<p>A personal statement is supposed to be personal...i hope your GC or someone notices so you can't take the easy way out</p>
<p>go ahead and do it while you can because you won't be able to in the fall of 05. colleges are getting smarter and that is one of the many reasons they added the writing section on the SAT: to compare your writen SAT essay to the college essay. if the two writing styles and "voices" are completely different, they're going to wonder whether or not you truly wrote the college essay.</p>
<p>coqui,
" i know if i did what HSkids 3 is doing and got in to stanford or harvard, i wouldn't care what i had done to get there, right or wrong."</p>
<p>Well, if you think the end always justifies the means, there's really nothing to say for it. I believe that the folks that used to head encon are having second thoughts about it, however.</p>
<p>In all of these threads about lying or cheating to get into some desired college, I keep wondering what happened to personal integrity. I put great effort into raising children for whom personal integrity is of high value and deserves utmost respect. If I were to find that one of my children had used these techniques in their college applications, I might even go so far as to remove my promise of funding for that child's college education... and would probably turn them in to the adcoms myself.</p>
<p>I'm sorry, it's still cheating. There are no two ways around the fact that when you sign your app, you are signing it as YOUR original work, not you and someone else's. In my opinion, anything other than having a friend, parent, GC or teacher read over an essay for grammar, spelling and simple suggestions. (That means that I consider paying money for an essay counselling service, like CC, to be cheating. That's just my opinion, though). It is simply not your work.</p>
<p>hskid said: In my school, how fair is it that a brother of a Harvard student is using his brother's essays for applying to college into every school but Harvard.</p>
<p>ok that's not fair but who said that justifies what you are doing?</p>
<p>haaha ray that is exactly what I was thinking. Thats like saying.... how fair is it that a hitman can make lots of cash killing people? How fair is it that people get away with stealing X money? How fair is it to do <em>insert illegal act here</em>? IT IS NOT FAIR. Just because other people do it does not make it fair or right.....</p>
<p>When a college admissions office reads an essay, they want to know you. Not your friend. The goal is to represent your personality and philosophy (and of course writing style.) I can't imagine a co-written essay that could possibly exude the personalities of two people while sounding like one. Bad idea.</p>
<p>Regardless, if using an essay that was partly written by someone else doesn't trigger your conscience, it should. If your "strong" morals allow for plagiarism, they aren't so strong. Stanford sometimes writes little notes on acceptance letters referring to something they saw in you from the essay. So, lets say you write the essays with your pal. You get into Stanford. The handwritten note on the letter says, "We at Stanford saw your strong character reflected in your essays." Ha. What a joke. Doesn't this make you feel like dirt? It does me. And feeling guilt often means that you are, well, guilty.</p>
<p>The bottom line: If you aren't willing to ask a counselor or the admissions office if your actions are legit, they aren't.</p>