<p>It is unfortunate that Cortana won´t be able to attend Cornell, and I do not believe he/she did anything inappropriate. It sounds like SUNY could be a good financial safety for her. If she wants to be pre-med, going to a SUNY may not be such a bad idea. I am going to utter the sacred word here- transfer, she could transfer to CAL or Home Ec junior year, and pay lower tuition as a NY resident, and still get a Cornell degree.</p>
<p>mdmomfromli, Yes I realize this was a very harsh post but the idea of appklying to multiple Ivy’s when you have an ED Ivy just doesn’t wash unless the whole ED has changed in the last few years. It is the role of a guidance councelor of a school to discuss these options with students and in this case the student in question has a father who works as a GC. Each of my sons also applied to other school before they applied to their respective schools, however they did not apply to other Ivy’s because their guidance councelor would not permit such a thing. They also could have received the Rensselear medal but they knew they did not want to attend the school and there were other classmates who wanted to attend that school as a first choice. There is just something not right when people sign agreements/contracts without having any idea about what it means to do so. The Ivy schools all know if you have applied early to another Ivy and any GC should have been aware of that. The scholarship that this student is speaking of usually goes to the student who is commited to that school as it should be not to a student who has clearly displayed allegiance to another school. Cortana might be disapointed that she is unable to attend Cornell but there are parents here who clearly understand the admissions process if the father is employed as a GC. </p>
<p>There aresituations that are legally wrong while others might be morally wrong. Accepting huge money as a backup when there is only one Renssalear medal given to a participating school means that in this case the student was willing to see a kid who wanted to attend Rensslaer not get this money in the offshoot that she got into Cornell. The idea of that being permitted is a flaw in the system at best and the GC should never have allowed this to happen. If Rensslaer is still not affordable to this student than that scholarship can not be passed to any other student in the school.</p>
<p>I am not familiar with the award, but under the ED agreement, the only thing an applicant is obligated to do is to withdraw all other applications when he/she has made the deposit to Cornell, and the deadline is Jan 13. Accepted EDer could decline the acceptance for financial reason, which is what Cortana is doing. </p>
<p>I know a lot of students who sent in their RD applications before they find out their ED result, and there is nothing wrong with that.</p>
<p>I think that you guys are being unreasonably harsh towards cortana. When one applies ED to a school, they can still work on other applications in case they get rejected from that school so they still have options. The RD applications are allowed to be submitted before the ED Decision date, but once someone “commits” (as in sending in their deposit after receiving enough financial aid to go) they are required to withdraw the applications they have already submitted. Under Cornell’s policy, if a student doesn’t receive enough financial aid to make attendance possible, they are allowed to back out of ED. That’s precisely what Cortana did and is within the terms of the ED agreement. I don’t see where the criticism is coming from because they haven’t broken any rules and I don’t see how they are “cheating the system.” My financial aid award from Cornell was vastly different from the financial aid calculator so it’s impossible to predict with certainty before the award letter comes out on whether Cornell would be affordable or not. Also, people I know have receive more aid than Cornell at other Ivy League schools or comparable schools such as Stanford and MIT.</p>
<p>Also, I don’t know how this works at Cortana’s school, but at mine the Renssalear medal is given to the most qualified student their junior year whether or not they even want to go to RPI. It’s not really an award that the student can reject even if they have no interest in the school.</p>
<p>First of all, I’m a boy. (I know the name is misleading).</p>
<p>And momma-three, you’re wrong about the Rensselaer Medal. Math/Science teachers don’t just give it out to a student who really really wants to go to Rensselaer, they give it to a talented and a very high performing math/science student they select. </p>
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<p>Ok, I think that is a ridiculous accusation. You’re saying that students apply early decision to an Ivy don’t apply RD to another ivy, based on your experience. Take a look around the ED threads for the other ivy league schools. There are other students who plan on applying to other ivy league schools. </p>
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<p>The deposit deadline for Cornell is January 13. Not withdrawing other applications doesn’t become a problem until then. And I didn’t withdraw them earlier because my family and I knew that Cornell most likely wouldn’t give us enough aid. I don’t know what you mean by “game the system.” My father is a guidance counselor and I have done my research, everything I have done and am doing is perfectly legitimate. </p>
<p>And I don’t care that you think I’m lying about my acceptance nor do I think you should because I have nothing to gain from lying about it anonymously on a public forum.</p>
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<p>How have I shown disregard for Cornell and the ED process? I talked to Cornell before applying and they said that, while unfortunate, it is perfectly fine and easy to withdraw your acceptance if the financial aid is not enough. Last year, 47 ED accepted students did not enroll. </p>
<p>The deadline for the Rensselaer scholarship is in May of the junior year. So Rensselaer could not have had any idea that I was eventually going to apply ED to Cornell. And as I said before, the Rensselaer Medal is awarded with the primary purpose of recognizing the top math/science student in a class. Desire to go to rensselaer is only a small, if any, factor. Why do you think Rensselaer gives a $15,000 scholarship to so many high schools, albeit 1 per school? Because they want those students to come to Rensselaer? Partly, but because they know many of those selected students are extremely smart and more likely to matriculate to MIT or Caltech or some other top tier school.</p>
<p>My dad is not a GC at my high school, he is a GC at another high school in the county. And contrary to what you are saying, the Rensselaer medal is awarded by the math and science teachers. The GC’s have no role in selecting that student. Nice try.</p>
<p>@Momma-three
I dont think youre too sure what youre talking about…</p>
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I’m not sure if I’m following you. Are you implying that the boatload of Freshman that enter each year have had their GPA standardized? If anything, the community college transfers should be more qualified, unless we were to accept that a high school level course, such as Freshman English, is more rigorous than a college level one. What you’re proposing, accounting for the different college standards of incoming transfer students, would only make sense if the goal was to secure transfer students that are of a far higher stock than the non-standardized original Freshmen.</p>
<p>A student from a “poor” high school with a 4.0, after all, would have a higher chance of being accepted into Cornell than a student at a “better” high school with a 3.3, unless a class rank could be provided. It doesn’t seem logical to implement these rigorous standards only with transfer students, nor does it seem particular practical.</p>
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No offense, but don’t you think that the board at Cornell Admission’s has a better grasp of how to do their job than any of us? You may have spent a few years at Cornell, but most of the individuals making these admission decisions have a fairly intensive background in doing just that, and neither you nor I would most likely have the necessary qualifications to be hired for such a position. I mean, it’s not as if I’m going to tell my plumber how to fix my pipes, when such a person has years of professional experience.</p>
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<p>HS GPA’s are not standardized either. But, the big difference between freshman applicants and transfer applicants is that freshman applicants must submit standardized test scores (SAT I, SAT II, ACT, AP scores). Transfer applicants are not required to do so and thus you can have a transfer application that literally has no standardized scores on it.</p>
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<p>And most high schools do rank their students (which provides a context to the GPA), unlike community colleges (and colleges in general) which do not rank their students. NYC for example has a few very rigorous magnet schools. Cornell knows about these schools and will take applicants with lower GPA’s. </p>
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<p>Not necessarily. It’s just a difference in philosophy regarding admissions. WashU clearly has a different philosophy than Cornell. You can’t necessarily say which philosophy is “right” or “wrong.” But, I personally prefer more of an emphasis on objective/standardized measures rather than things like a good essay.</p>
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<p>LOLOLOL. Wow I laughed so hard at this. Are you really trying to argue that community college transfers are “more qualified” in any sense of the word than the freshman class? Please just stop. If I have to explain to you why you’re wrong, that’s even funnier.</p>
<p>Wow, this is the first time I’ve read through this thread, and it looks like things are getting a little heated.</p>
<p>I’ll make a few general, opinionated statements. In my personal opinion and from my personal experience, community college freshman are in no way whatsoever more qualified than high school senior applicants. If they were so competitive, why are they at community college in the first place? And don’t play the “these students didn’t have the financial resources” card. It’s because they did not work hard or got into trouble in most cases.</p>
<p>My family does not have a great income, and three people will be attending college next year. We don’t have the money to fund my education at an Ivy either, but frankly, I don’t care. If it’s something I’m passionate about, I’ll apply for aid and take on loans and pay them off for the rest of my life. I want to be there. Like they say, “There is virtue in being college broke.”</p>
<p>Likewise, I’m not the BEST student or even that specially talented for that matter. In fact, my profile is up as a chance topic if you want to check it out. But I still received scholarships to UK, UoM, and MSU including their honors programs. If community college students put in the time, they would be anywhere but there. I am also an applicant to West Point, one of the best engineering schools in the country where admission is FREE. If you want proof, I will actually upload a screenshot of my accepted application and the letter of nomination I received from my US Senator. (1 of 10 recipients) So that just goes to show that hard work and determination can always outweigh adversity.</p>
<p>The statement that COMMUNITY college freshman are more qualified than exemplary high school applicants is just laughable.</p>
<p>It’s funny how wrong lunar’s post is.</p>
<p>The premise that community college students are idiots is untrue and that’s the problem with this thread. There will be no reasonable discussion as long as people accept the faulty premise. </p>
<p>I can’t say I’m surprised since community colleges attract disproportionate amounts of idiots due to the open admission policy of most community colleges.</p>
<p>I’d probably guess that the top 10% of community college students are on the same level (at LEAST) as the top 20% of 4 year school students. Even though I’m a c.c student myself, I see some people at my own school for goodness sake that would be crushed by Cornell (heck, perhaps I would be too) that are seriously considering it despite mediocre grades not only in high school, but in c.c.</p>
<p>But people have to realize that many c.c students apply to the 100% full-need schools indiscriminately (at least I know I am).</p>
<p>TLDR: You shouldn’t automatically discount community college students. You just make yourself look snobbish.</p>
<p>Nobody made any statements claiming that community college students are idiots. We only pointed out the absurdity of Lunar’s post. And though there are undoubtedly high-achieving hard-working students in community college, I still have to disagree with your conjecture. The top 10% of community college can not be on the same level as the top 20% of 4-year-UG students. As I said in my own personal testimony, I was offered scholarships to every state university I applied to, and Service Academies are completely free education. If the top 10% of community college students were anywhere near the caliber of the top 20% of 4-year program students, they would have had decent rides to state universities or small private colleges… that is, unless there is another reason for attending community college other than because of lacking financial resources and the obvious which you mentioned. I just don’t see it.</p>
<p>If they had the work ethic, they wouldn’t be in community college. Again, that’s just my opinion based on my experiences. If you have a different reason for attending community college, please enlighten me.</p>
<p>Also, I don’t think anyone was being snobbish. If you were referring to me and interpreted my statements as “snobbish,” I apologize, but perhaps you should first broaden your own horizons before making any accusations.</p>
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I was not referring to you. Rather to those who agree with the faulty premise. </p>
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The difference between a community college and getting say, a 75% ride to a 4 year school is tremendous. A top student who decides to go to a community college can be PAID upwards of $3000 a semester to attend. This same student who decides to go to a flagship school would pay (even with a 75% ride) at least $5000 a semester. A 4 year school simply isn’t an option for students whose parents make less than $40,000 a year. </p>
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I want to get a bachelors degree without paying a single penny. I was accepted into my state flagship and into some other decent schools, but even with scholarships I felt that it wasn’t worth it. </p>
<p>Oh, and for clarification, I meant that the top 10% of c.c students have similar GPAs (once they transfer), graduation rates, employment rates and admission rates to graduate programs as the top 20% of 4 year college students (entering as freshman).</p>
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<p>Oh and I took a look at your chance thread. You have a very good chance at Cornell I’d say. Just write above average essays and you probably have more than a 50% chance.</p>
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<p>That’s the exact problem me and a few others are addressing. Due to years of Cornell accepting hordes of subpar community college transfers for who knows what reason, people who have no business at Ivies are thinking they’re hot stuff and Cornell material when they would get absolutely crushed here. I’m not saying all transfers, or even community college transfers, are idiots. Just that Cornell’s extremely lax admissions policies over the years has given it a “anyone can get in with a 4.0 from a cc” appearance (and it is kind of true).</p>
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<p>I’d fix that to the top 1% (or most likely even less) of cc students. You should come take an upper level math/science class here and then you’d know how high of a level the top 20% actually is.</p>
<p>Anyway, I have nothing against you personally, majoreco. Good luck.</p>
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Oh no no no no, not top 20% at Cornell, I meant top 20% at all 4 year schools.</p>
<p>"Quote:
I’d fix that to the top 1% (or most likely even less) of cc students. You should come take an upper level math/science class here and then you’d know how high of a level the top 20% actually is.
Oh no no no no, not top 20% at Cornell, I meant top 20% at all 4 year schools. "</p>
<p>If you mean state schools as an aggregate (excluding ones like berkley, ucla, uva, and umich), then maybe.</p>
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<p>Oh. I was reading too quickly. Actually, on second thought, I would revise my statement to the top <.1% of cc students. The top students here are monsters, and I highly doubt you’d find anyone of that caliber at any community college. Your top 10% at cc = top 20% at 4 year universities statement I’m less sure of. I’m in no position to judge that.</p>
<p>@majoreco why wouldn’t 4 year schools be an option for families that make less than $40,000? Wouldn’t that student get a full financial aid package to cover the Coa like at Cornell?</p>