<p>Hi, I'm a senior and trying to build up/finalize my college list with some Liberal Arts Colleges. Which ones are known for good bio/pre-med programs? I already know about Swarthmore and Haverford, but am still considering others like Carleton and Claremont McKenna. If any of you have input about good, small colleges, that would be awesome. Thanks.</p>
<p>By the way, if it helps, my stats are: 1450/2220 SAT, 790 Bio SATII, 730 USH SATII, and a 4.1 weighted/3.8 unweighted GPA.</p>
<p>honestly, any of the top 50 will be fine.</p>
<p>your stats are good enough that you have a shot at most any liberal arts colleges. I would argue that any of the top 50 would not be fine, as I think there's a more pronounced dropoff in the quality of education and student body as one goes down the list of LAC's than top univeristies, but that's largely beside the point. As a rule you should know that LAC's are generally weaker in the sciences than major universities, as they often lack grad programs/money to support the departments, however many also do have a reputation for being strong schools for premeds (the thinking being that the ability to get to know your professors better, higher grade inflation, etc. can compensate for limited hospital/research opportunities).</p>
<p>One important cautionary note: Some liberal arts colleges (morseso than universities) screen their premeds in order to inflate their apparent acceptance rates to med school; meaning you must meet certain criteria (gpa, etc.) to get a recommendation from the faculty. Thouroughly research your schools before you apply to see if they practice this (I cannot confirm, but I have heard Swarthmore does)</p>
<p>Also, with your stats you might want to consider Brown and/or Dartmouth as reach schools, as they both have a LAC feel but have the infrastructure of major universities, as well as attached med schools and hospitals (read: research opportunities).</p>
<p>Hey thanks for your replies.</p>
<p>I've heard a little bit about how LACs tend to keep you from applying to med school after four years to boost their acceptance rates, but still haven't been able to figure out which ones to avoid for that. </p>
<p>Basically, I'm just looking for the school that gives me the highest shot for med school, ie. ones known for moderate/good grade inflation and where I don't have to compete against crazy numbers of pre-meds for a high GPA and class rank.</p>
<p>I am applying to Brown, and now I'll look into Dartmouth. If you have any suggestions for a small-ish school with a good science program and anything but grade DEFLATION, it would be much appreciated.</p>
<p>i disagree with just about everything phillysaser said about LACs.</p>
<p>Uh, huskem, you're going to have to give more detailed reasoning than that if any of us are going to understand what you mean.</p>
<p>PS: Remember, grade deflation is not the only (or major) proxy for how difficult a school is. You also have to assess mean MCAT/GPA for admitted applicants, among other things such as how well you personally fit into the environment there.</p>
<p>just because liberal arts schools do a phenomenal job with preparing students for med school. just because they are smaller, does not mean they do not have adequate resources. at smaller schools, there is more individual attention, meaning whoever wants to do research, has the opportunity to either work on a professors project, or do their own independent research.
the smaller science classes do hands on work in the classroom, the lab, and in the field. at my very small school, each spring break a couple of the bio and chem profs lead trips to the caribbean to do research.</p>
<p>ive never heard of a school that purposely weeds out premed students. especially because the more students that go to med school, the better the school looks. </p>
<p>although the departments are going to be smaller than your huge research institution (which frequently are focused on grad students and their research), they can be extremely successful and productive. at my school, i'd say that in the past 5 years, there have been around 25 chem or biochem najors. i'd say out of that 25, 20 are now in med schools or in extremely prestigious phd or combined phd/md programs (i.e. yale, johns hopkins, san fran, uwash, duke, etc).
thats a pretty darn good rate if i do say so myself.</p>
<p>1.) So apparently this isn't something you disagree with:
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many [LACs] also do have a reputation for being strong schools for premeds (the thinking being that the ability to get to know your professors better, higher grade inflation, etc. can compensate for limited hospital/research opportunities)
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</p>
<p>2.) Schools also care about their percentages, and so it's worth investigating to make sure they don't weed a la Hopkins. PSAS didn't suggest the OP avoid LAC's - only investigate them. That strikes me as sound advice.</p>
<p>3.) I don't think it's arguable that LACs have smaller, less-well equipped/funded overall science departments. It's also not a very big deal, since premeds don't need big important labs anyway, they just need labs where they can manage their own projects and develop an understanding of research philosophies and cultures.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I don't think it's arguable that LACs have smaller, less-well equipped/funded overall science departments. It's also not a very big deal, since premeds don't need big important labs anyway, they just need labs where they can manage their own projects and develop an understanding of research philosophies and cultures.
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Allegheny College has one of the largest science complexes in the US- second only to Columbia's graduate facility, I believe. In any case, at least undergrads at LACs don't have to fight with grad students for labs. ;)</p>
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Allegheny College has one of the largest science complexes in the US- second only to Columbia's graduate facility
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</p>
<p>A bizarre claim. What are you talking about?</p>
<p>
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What are you talking about?
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Allegheny's science facilities, obviously. I certainly wasn't talking about the weather! Allegheny's "new" science facility was built 10 years ago and is no longer quite as big or impressive as they claim (i.e. ignore outdated quoted statement in earlier post), but a 170,000 square foot facility for a relatively unrecognized LAC is excellent. </p>
<p>Williams has an even more impressive science facility, with 220,000 square feet. For comparison, MIT's biology building has 250,000 square feet; Duke's LSRC has 340,000 square feet.</p>
<p>... but the LSRC is a tiny fraction of Duke's science facilities. You've got North, and Bryan, and the hospitals themselves, and the big one is (I believe) "Morris". That's ignoring the brand new Fitzgerald Center and French Science Center, as well as ignoring all the offices of the actual science professors - i.e. Gross Chem, the Biology Dept, the physics/math bldg, the biochem building, etc. All of these are full of lab space. The LSRC is probably the fourth biggest building in this list.</p>
<p>I'm sure MIT, Columbia, Stanford, Berkeley, WUSTL, etc. are all in similar circumstances.</p>
<p>Exactly BDM, millions of square feet for science. No knock on Allegheny, I know nothing about it, but declaring its science facilities to be any way comparable to the major universities is just bizarre.</p>
<p>Pomona (claremont) is a good one. They don't have many on the west coast but there is a ton of them on the east (Swarthmore?) Check the CC's list of top liberal arts colleges</p>
<p>You could try for the Pitzer DO 7 year program</p>
<p>Hi, I’m the parent of a high school senior who wants pre med. Act score 30, gpa 3.8 unweighted, and all that. We are looking for colleges that where he might get the most financial assistance, but are still good colleges for him to get a good start in medicine! I’ve read the posts and wonder if someone could give me any advice up to date suggestions…saw BC, BU recently…many don’t have programs per se, but have unofficial guidance in that area. All of these choices are starting to blur…I don’t think he can get not the biggies, like Swarthmore, Harvard, or Dartmouth. any helpful suggestions would be greatly appreciated. We are overwhelmed!</p>
<p>check your instate options…cheaper probably (keep undergrad costs down to accomodate the loans you will need for med school)…also many med schools have a preference for instate students. oos med schools are ridiculously expensive!</p>
<p>but also there are some good oos schools that would be great for premed that will offer merit aid also, with his scores. so check those possibilities too. i’ll put in my plug for UAB where he would get top oos merit aid …leaving out of pocket cost or financial need at about 10+K per year (not an lac, its a research university)</p>
<p>Any LAC or research U will have health career advising. So that shouldn’t be a major consideration. Also there are about a billion websites, message boards and books out there which explain the process.</p>
<p>I would suggest you ignore all hype of about percentage of students accepted into medical school you may see on a college’s website. The various ways different colleges calculate this is so variable that the numbers are meaningless. </p>
<p>It’s the student who gets him/herself into the medical school, not the college.</p>
<p>Try reading this post by BDM-- his advice is sound.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/1122176-bluedevilmikes-ten-step-guide-picking-premed-school.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/1122176-bluedevilmikes-ten-step-guide-picking-premed-school.html</a></p>
<p>BTW, I am the parent of 2 pre-meds, one currently in med school and the other applying next cycle. My children attended vastly different types of colleges. One attended a large state (30,000+ student) flagship (USN ranked 150-200), the other a mid-size (5,000 students) Top 30 research U. Both received excellent educations, both had appropriate advising, both had significant research opportunities, both had medical volunteering and leadership opportunities… Both will likely end up attending the same medical school. </p>
<p>BTW, in my older child’s med school class–there are people from all sorts of schools (Ivies, Top LACs, as well as the in-state state flagship, the state AG & Eng schools, OOS flagships & directional colleges, OOS colleges I’ve never even heard of!) </p>
<p>My advice: take medicine out of the equation. Let your son look at schools where he would be happy IF pre-med weren’t part of the decision process.</p>
<p>And the reason for this is-- 75% of freshmen pre meds never even apply to medical school. And not because of academics, but because interests change and because they’re exposed to different career options they’re not even aware of as high school kids.</p>
<p>agree with wowmom…but to add cpatriz i just read your post again…there is no such thing as a premed program…your son can major in what ever he wants… and must take the required courses for med school</p>
<p>
That’s not entirely true. There are a few schools that do offer a “pre-med” major. Penn State is one of them.</p>
<p>[Major</a>, Program Goals, Educational Planning Materials, & Forms — Eberly College of Science](<a href=“http://science.psu.edu/premed/majorinfo]Major”>http://science.psu.edu/premed/majorinfo)</p>