Good/Realistic Match/Safety Schools Ideas+how to choose?

College Search & Selection
1

Hi Everyone,

I’m currently a rising senior (almost decided to graduate a year early, but doesn’t look like that will happen). Looking at graduating early made me want to get a bit of a jump start on college applications. I’ve been finding it really difficult to tell which schools I would like past all the shiny marketing material, as well as which ones are realistic for match or safety schools. I want to go into one of math/physics/comp. sci., currently leaning towards math/physics. Top choice is caltech, because of the rigorous academics and research environment, but no matter what that’s a crapshoot. The most important thing to me is probably the people, I really like being around smart, curious intellectuals because of the interesting things you get up to in that environment. Cost is also a big thing that I’ve tried to ignore thus far, I’m probably not getting much or any help from parents, so places that will give good aid or scholarships are ideal.

My stats:

PSAT: 1460 last year w/o study
SAT: Get scores on first one tomorrow (will update), got a 1510 on the last practice test.
GPA Weighted: 3.9
GPA Unweighted: 3.8

AP’s: AP US History (5), AP Calc BC (5, took AB calc but self studied the BC material last year), AP Physics 1 (5, again some self study, took a non AP class that didn’t cover everything on the test). Currently taking AP Stats, AP Lang, AP Physics 2.

Other prominent academic things: Most prominent is mathematics, pretty average math track until highschool, I skipped into the last half of Alg. 1-2 8th grade, self studied 3-4 that summer, took a combined Geo/Precalc class 9th, then last year took AB calc and self studied BC. This year I’m taking AP Stats, Discrete Mathematics at Lewis and Clark, I’ll be starting either a math modeling or advanced proof based class soon. Other than math, took physics 1 a year early and am now doing physics 2.

Extracurriculars: I’ve been playing violin since I was like 3/4, I’m now the concert master of the school chamber orchestra, last year we won second in state for small ensembles.
I do this youth entrepreneurship group called TIE youth entrepreneurs, freshman year I ran my own team of 8, we got mention in the local competition, then last year I mentored/helped a team and went to the global competition with them, I ended up doing half of the main room pitch last minute.
I do a good amount of programming, so I have a web app or two built, a mario ripoff called super bernie bros (fun project), and am fairly experienced with Machine Learning. Spent a few weeks at PSU this summer doing some fairly cutting edge Machine Learning work, which I should be building a computational cluster later this year to finish (https://github.com/NWAPWKAGGLE/music/wiki).
I’m in astronomy club. I wrote a lecture/introduction to special relativity which I’ll be giving at some point.
I’m gonna start doing math/physics tutoring with my physics teacher from last year referring + mentoring me.
I’m trying to start working on a project for LIGO (https://www.ligo.caltech.edu/), not sure if that will happen though.

I think that’s pretty much it, sorry it’s so long, I didn’t really realize how much stuff there was until I wrote it out.

Thoughts?

2

You might need to establish whether your parents are unable or unwilling to contribute to your college costs. This will determine which colleges might be financially suitable for you.

3

I’ll assume that they won’t, given what they’ve said.

4

If they have the ability to pay some of your costs, but will not, then colleges that base their scholarships on need (such as Caltech) may not be open to you.

If, however, their income would not allow them to contribute to your costs, then you could consider colleges that state they will meet the full demonstrated need of all accepted applicants:

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2016-09-19/colleges-that-claim-to-meet-full-financial-need

5

Right, they’ve thus far told me to apply to a variety of both, given that they’d like to help but may not be able to given their own student loans and needing to save for retirement. Also they’re are divorced, so whether either can help is separate. I was planning to apply to some need based aid schools like caltech being hopeful, and then some others that are appropriate if they can help me but choose not to because of other obligations.

6

These colleges appear in a Princeton Review sampling, “Great Schools for Mathematics Majors,” and, though highly selective as group, would include a few potential admissions matches for you:

Caltech
UChicago
Harvard
Harvey Mudd
MIT
Rice
Bowdoin
Hamilton
Haverford
Carleton
Grinnell
Reed
Macalester
URochester

When your SAT score comes in, you will have a better idea as to where you would be positioned in terms of the averages for these colleges.

7

Some new ones on there. Reed I’ve been to a number of times as it’s in my hometown, I actually really like a lot of things about it, but I’m not sure I’d want to be that close to home.
As far as likelihood of acceptance, how can I tell what schools are actually matches? Most of the colleges with average SAT score above ~1450 have really low acceptance even for qualified applicants, so that doesn’t seem like the best way to measure match vs. reach.

8

Schools with sub-25% acceptance rates will typically be reaches for most applicants. For a match school, 30% or higher will usually suffice in my opinion, provided you are fully qualified for admission when compared to attending students. Schools on either side of these rough thresholds could be matches or reaches, or even safeties, when considered across a range of factors, so some degree of judgment will be required.

For choices that may be more accessible than those above, you can read through the unscreened, somewhat eclectic, PR list:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/20799631#Comment_20799631

9

What state are your from? Your in-state flagship (or #3 through #6 or so if you are in California) might be a sensible match or safety for you.

“I’ve been finding it really difficult to tell which schools I would like past all the shiny marketing material,”

To me this reads as being very sensible. The marketing materials plus the university’s ranking add up to very little actual information. I am generally a believer in visiting a school and watching students, taking a tour, sitting in on a class if you can, and trying to get a feel for various schools that you are considering.

“The most important thing to me is probably the people, I really like being around smart, curious intellectuals”

This sounds like you might like university more than high school.

“Cost is also a big thing that I’ve tried to ignore thus far”

You are going to need to start considering this.

You should run the NPC on the schools that you are considering and see whether your parents are okay with the results. Given your stats you have a good chance at getting a good deal from your in-state schools and should include one or more (depending upon your state) in the schools that you will apply to. If you are not getting much help from parents because they just don’t have any money then you might get good need based aid from both in-state public schools and some private schools. If you are not getting much help from your parents for other reasons then you might have a smaller choice of schools to consider. The NPC is your best chance to get a “good guess” regarding what schools will actually cost.

“they’d like to help but may not be able to given their own student loans and …”

There is something here to keep in mind: Depending on the size, student debt can be unpleasant to deal with down the road. It seems a bit scary to me to have parents still dealing with student loans when their kids are going off to university. You would be wise to try to minimize the amount of debt that you need to take on for university.

10

@merc81 Ok. I’ll try using that as a rough guide then.

@DadTwoGirls I’m in Oregon, our state schools are OK, but comparing past admissions statistics from my high school to my stats, I think they fall well into the safety category. I’ll still probably apply to one.
I’m fairly certain I’ll like university more than high school, I’m already enjoying the single college class I’m taking a lot because of the atmosphere.

11

Don’t “apply and see what happens.” Every school is required to have a net price calculator on their financial aid website. Run it. Some schools will require both parents’ household incomes (especially places like Caltech) but other will just want the income of the custodial parent.

Here is Caltech for an example: https://www.finaid.caltech.edu/npc

Also check for merit scholarships for incoming freshmen. You should be eligible.

Be sure to have at least one very low sticker price option on your list (either a state university or a place like Alabama that gives guaranteed huge scholarships for high grades and scores).

As an Oregon resident, you are also eligible for WUE, which can give you discounts at out of state colleges.

http://www.wiche.edu/wue

12

Ok, I’ll have my parents run those and see what they say.
I looked at WUE, might be helpful for Cal Poly Pomona or such.
For low sticker price I was going to apply to OSU, which is also a pretty safe admissions bet.

I’ve heard that it can make sense to apply to some private schools that might throw a lot of money at you for merit. Is that a good strategy?

13

@ewinkelman

Within the past 10 years, Wesleyan and Williams have been awarded two Apker Awards in physics.
Wesleyan’s physics prize was won against much bigger schools since the Apker is divided into two tracks, one for Phd-granting institutions and one for non-Phd-granting institutions.

Colgate 2007
Haverford 2008
Mt Holyoke 2009
Wellesley 2009
Williams 2010
Wesleyan 2010
Augustana 2011
Franklin & Marshall 2012
Wesleyan 2013
Loyola Univ MD 2014
Williams 2015

If you’re interested in pursuing a Ph.D, using data from the National Science Foundation, the following schools produced the highest percentage of graduates who eventually go on to earn a Ph.D. in physics.

Caltech
Reed
Swarthmore
Lawrence
Carleton
Haverford
Williams
MIT
CO School of Mines
Grinnell
Amherst
Princeton
Wabash
College of Wooster
Gustavus
Vassar
Kenyon
Rice
Bryn Mawr
University of Rochester.

2017 Best Colleges for Physics in America

Bates
Bowdoin
Brown
Carleton
Grinnell
Harvard
Haverford
Harvey Mudd
Vassar
Wesleyan
Wake Forest
Colby
Caltech
Stanford
MIT
Penn
Cornell
Princeton
CMU
Yale

Complete list can be found on the Niche website.

14

Depends on your budget. Up to half tuition or so is pretty easy to find if you’re under-matching by bringing high stats to a less competitive school. More than that and it’s a bit harder to find.

Look up a college on collegedata.com. Under the money matters tab, it will show the percentage of students without financial need who received merit aid. I use that as a rough guideline: If 35% of those students got a scholarship, you would want to be in the top 35% of the application pool if you’re hoping for merit.

Some net price calculators will ask for your GPA and test scores and will spit out a merit scholarship estimate as well.

The midwest and south are better merit hunting grounds than the east and west coasts.

15

@CrewDad Thanks for that, I’ll look into the new colleges on that list. There seems to be a fair amount of overlap between the good math and physics schools, which is a good sign if I decide to double major or something.

@AroundHere I’m guessing that you can still get great classes and people at some of those less competitive schools, it’s just a matter of not getting caught up looking for prestige. Do schools give any merit to students receiving need based aid or is it one or the other?

Also, I’m trying to make an effort to get involved in scientific research before graduation, at both ligo (fingers crossed), and a local lab. I’m not doing it for the college application by any means (I mean, it’s ligo, who cares about college apps if you get to do work at ligo, or if you’re helping with some other cutting edge research that interests you), but I’m curious how much of a difference that would make on my apps?

16

More generally I suppose, are my ec’s good enough for at least looking at some schools where good tests/gpa aren’t enough (i.e. caltech, mit, HYPS, etc.), or will they not be enough and so I should take that into account and not apply to any of those schools?

17

How merit and need go together will vary by school. When looking at merit schools, think about your nonnegotiables. Maybe you’re willing to go to a school in a less desirable location, but you’re not willing to go to a school with a weak math department. You can’t have everything, but what things are most important to you?

18

Your big problem is likely to be cost. The net price calculators are tricky for divorced parents. If the colleges consider thier income high enough that they could pay, but just won’t, most of the schools on this thread will be unaffordable.

19

Okay, I’ll keep that in mind. I’m having my parents fill out those calculators, and may call a couple schools to find out how they handle divorced parents as I get closer to making decisions on where to apply.

20

@ewinkelman :

It’s important to note that the schools listed as the 2017 Best Colleges for Physics in reply #12 have been rearranged and do not correspond to the original source. Just as importantly, even in the original form, I’d regard that source as disastrous for your purposes based on methodology issues.

Did you receive your official scores?