<p>Skidmore, Muhlenberg, College of Charleston, Colorado College, Wheaton, Goucher, Fordham (audition for drama), all have some great performing arts programs. The ivies and other selective schools such as Brown, Wesleyan have great programs but they are not safeties by any measure. American is building a program in MT, I hear, and may be worth examining. </p>
<p>I agree with Soozievt that some schools that are non selective academically can be tough for MT. Point Park, University of Arts, are NOT safeties for MT. Princeton Review has a ratings guide as to how important the arts are at their schools which can give you some idea about opportunities at non MT schools. There is also a college guidebook for the arts out there that lists all the colleges that have programs including non audition schools with strong drama/music.<br>
My son applied to schools as a non BFA candidate along with the MT app. You can thus get into Ithaca, Emerson, Michigan, Syracuse, CMU, and other schools academically and get into their BA drama programs or minor in theatre arts as a back up without adding other schools. Did not work for us, as son did get into the nonBFA non MT programs and decided he did not want to be on the other side of a glass wall looking in. With his personality, probably a good choice, but there are kids who do well this way. The director of our school plays was an English/drama major at a regular college who then went to a prestigious MFA program. Friend of son's is at such a program at Case Western after a BA from Notre Dame with a string of successes there in drama/musicals. Got juicier parts and had more fun than a lot of MT kids he knows, and she is now studying it as a master's.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse - Nice post! You are correct that Wesleyan is not a safety school for most but based on the OP grades and test scores I don't think she'd have a problem. My post should have been more specific.</p>
<p>Mmmm. Wesleyan is not a safety for anyone, MTDad. It's a favorite for kids at my son's school and some top dogs there did not make it. One problem with a school that has a lot of Performing arts types is that it makes it less of a hook there. I agree that OP has a good shot there, but when you are talking safety, she would do better with a school that has true safety stats. I think College of Charleston has EA, and if she finds a few other schools of that ilk, she can have that base covered. EA for MT majors is a tough go, because it is such a slap in the face when rejected or deferred early in the process. We ran into that with son. He was deferred from Michigan MT which really hurt, waitlisted at Emerson and Hart programs. That put him in true panic mode. It would have been nice had he thrown in some non audition safeties at the onset. Instead we spent Christmas holidays looking for them.</p>
<p>D is very familar with Point Park, being from Pittsburgh. Has several friends accepted into this upcoming MT and theatre year's classes. We've toured PP and she's sat in on some classes.. The prof whose class she sat in on also teaches D's Musical Theatre/Auditions class at the Pittsburgh CLO Academy, several PP and CMU faculty members teach there, including her voice teacher(CMU faculty)... They've told her they feel she would more than likely get accepted at PP for MT.</p>
<p>They actually had the whole PP senior class come in to their CLO MT/Audition class for mock auditions, and each student got reviewed and critiqued by the PP senior class... D said they were all a little stressed out for that one..lol</p>
<p>Another nice thing about PP is all the expansion it's undergoing. they're buying up piece after piece of property around their campus...</p>
<p>anyway, thanks again for all the continued suggestions.... My spreadsheet just keeps getting bigger. :-)</p>
<p>MTDad77....I wonder if perhaps you are confused by the Wesleyan University that cptofthehouse is mentioning. She is mentioning Wesleyan in CT which is a HIGHLY selective university and is NOT a safety school for ANYONE. While the OP's daughter has a strong profile, she'd NOT be a sure bet at Wesleyan University. Even someone with higher stats would not be either. It is ranked 11th in the US among Liberal Arts Colleges. Wesleyan University's acceptance rate is 26%. The mid SAT range is 1290 to 1480 for the CR/M combined. It is a borderline reach/match school most likely for the OP's daughter. In other words, it is not nearly a safe bet. </p>
<p>I am confused by something you posted:</p>
<p>
[quote]
...Illinois Wesleyan University in Bloomington IL. Ranked higher than NYU and U of Mich academically.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Illinois Wesleyan is ranked 59th among Liberal Arts Colleges. It has an acceptance rate (academically to the university....not the BFA program) of 52%. The mid range for SATs is: 1160-1360 for the CR/M combined. </p>
<p>NYU is ranked 34th among National Universities (a different category than Liberal Arts Colleges which is what Wesleyan University and Illinois Wesleyan are grouped under). The acceptance rate (academically to the university, not the BFA program) is 25%. The mid range of SATs of admitted students is 1300-1440 for the CR/M combined. </p>
<p>U of Michigan is ranked 25th among National Universities (again, not the same category as Liberal Arts Colleges) and has an acceptance rate (academically to the university, not the BFA program) of 47%. The mid range of SATs of admitted students is 1210-1420 on the CR/M combined. </p>
<p>Thus, I don't see how Illinois Wesleyan is ranked higher than NYU or UMich academically .....in terms of its ranking itself, its acceptance rate, or the SAT range of its admitted students. Most would maintain that Illinois Wesleyan is not as selective or as hard to get into academically as either NYU or UMich. NYU is the hardest to get into of the three academically, then UMich, then Illinois Wesleyan.</p>
<p>West Chester University is non- auditioned BA- very cute college town. Rolling admissions.
Temple U has a great non audition BA theatre with a new auditioned musical theater concentration. Temple also has a nice Honors program.
DeSales has a great theater program- auditioned but they seem to accept a large class</p>
<p>It's so important to have a non auditioned safety. It was so great for my d to have recived an acceptance to West Chester very early in the process. Although she will be going to MMC in the fall- it was such a relief to know all thru the audition process that she did have a place to study theater regardless of the audition outcomes</p>
<p>Both Temple and West Chester should be academic safeties for the OP's daughter. The schools have a very different character to them.</p>
<p>Temple's theatre department is located at its main campus in north Philadelphia. The campus is an oasis in an area that was blighted in the past but has undergone and continues to undergo tremendous redevelopment as Temple continues to expand. It offers an extremely wide diversity of programs and, as noted, an honors program that attracts highly capable students because of Temple's attractive tuition pricing (particularly for in state students). Academically, Temple is probably a better choice for the OP's daughter than West Chester. It's Theatre Department is well regarded and has a very highly rated Masters program. The Music and Dance Departments have very strong reputations. While the MT concentration is new, it is being run by professors who are highly regarded by their peers in the Philadelphia area and there is a sense of excitement about the resources Temple is committing to expand it's program. Temple is located about 15 minutes north of center city Phila by public transportation which means that students have easy access to the rich and vibrant theatre and other performing arts scene that Phila has to offer as well as to all of the cultural and social attractions of the city. We know many families whose kids go to Temple's main campus and are very happy there.</p>
<p>West Chester has a very different feel. The school is much smaller than Temple and is located in the Town of West Chester about a 45 minute drive from center city Phila. It has a very active theatre department with MT opportunities and I believe is active with the Theater Alliance of Philadelphia. West Chester is a cute town but I hesitate to call it a "college town" because of the tension that exists between college culture and the desire of the town government to avoid students and college culture from impacting the upscale, somewhat artsy appearance West Chester wants to cultivate and maintain. There are severe limitations on student housing off campus and if students move into housing outside of certain designated zones, they often find themselves forced out of their rental houses/apartments by the municipal L&I code enforcement bureau mid-lease under a very anti-student housing ordinance. My son's girlfriend went to West Chester (before she transfered to Temple) and found that campus life was limited because most students commute from areas outside of West Chester.</p>
<p>Both schools, however, offer very viable non-audition theatre opportunities in the context of a broader L.A. education.</p>
<p>Man, I hope the neighborhood around Temple has gotten better than when I visited it as part of my own college search in the early 80's - It was downright SCARY! lol.</p>
<p>Illinois Wesleyan in Illinois and Wesleyan University in Middletown, Ct. are NOT the same school, MTDad777. Anyone reading this thread needs to be aware of that. NO ONE -- not even a student in the tippy top echelons academically -- should consider Wesleyan a "safety." (Read Jacques Steinberg's "The Gatekeepers" if you want to know more about Wesleyan and how they admit students. It's super tough to get in, even for National Merit finalists.")</p>
<p>By the way, soozievt, my D and I recently attended an info session at NYU and the admissions officer said that last year, NYU had an overall admissions rate of about 21%. The rate of acceptance at Tisch was even lower than that.</p>
<p>NMR...I also was going to mention The Gatekeepers to MTDad because it chronicles just how difficult it is to gain admissions to Wesleyan University (in CT) and schools of its caliber. It is not a safety for anyone and not remotely in the same ballpark as Illinois Wesleyan. </p>
<p>As far as NYU's admit rate.....I took the 25% acceptance rate right off of NYU's admissions site where it gave the data for the class that will enter in fall of 2008. As you say, the admit rate to Tisch itself is lower. NYU is academically more selective than Illinois Wesleyan and it is important for those who read these posts to be well informed of the facts.</p>
<p>KatiesDad, the area around Temple has gotten a lot better. My wife graduated Temple in 1975 and we both graduated its law school in 1978 so I know what you mean. Temple's campus today is almost a city unto itself and is generally regarded as safe. As Temple has expanded, the surrounding neighborhoods have benefitted and as long as students use the same common sense that should be used on any college campus in or around any city, it is as safe as any other college campus. As I mentioned, we know many families with students there now or who have recently graduated, both sons and daughters, and all seem to be very pleased with the experience they had. I personally think Temple is a good option for a BA "safety" because of its proximity to and involvement with the Philadelphia theatre scene. My personal opinion is that on the east coast, outside of New York, Phila is tough to beat for the vibrancy and scope of opportunities available for students in performing arts.</p>
<p>It appears that a student who is admitted to Temple academically but not the MT Emphasis can start in the Theatre Emphasis, and audition later for upper level acting classes... possibly a student could also re-audition for the MT emphasis. I would suggest contacting the department at Temple directly to clarify and confirm.</p>
<p>Unless things have changed in the last few years, Goucher does not provide MT. The only MT available is in student produced musicals. They have an exceptional dance department and a good theatre dept. that does straight plays. They also offer vocal music. It just didn't seem possible to combine them into an MT major, at least at the time we visited a few years ago. We were otherwise impressed with the college.</p>
<p>MTDad, I don't recall anyone saying you fabricated anything. This "academic rating" you are referring to is some rating that Princeton Review comes up with. How one publication rates a school is not the same as the facts about the level of academic selectivity to be admitted. I don't know what criteria Princeton Review is using to come up with THEIR "rating". Even so, the three schools you mention have extremely close ratings in the Princeton Review with no signficant difference. </p>
<p>Actually, I just found Princeton Review's basis for THEIR "academic rating":
[quote]
How hard students work and how much they get back for their efforts, on a scale of 60-99. This rating is calculated from student survey results and statistical information reported by administrators. Factors weighed include how many hours students study outside of the classroom and the quality of students the school attracts. We also considered students' assessments of their professors, class size, student-teacher ratio, use of teaching assistants, amount of class discussion, registration, and resources. Please note that if a school has an Academic Rating of 60<em>, it means that the school did not report to us a sufficient number of the statistics that go into the rating by our deadline. Please also note that a school with an Admissions Selectivity Rating of 60</em> will have an Academic Rating that is lower than it should be, since the Admissions Selectivity Rating is a factor in the calculation that produces the Academic Rating.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Even if you wish to put stock into these surveys and ratings that Princeton Review came up with, I see no statistical difference of significance in the fact that this publication rated NYU an 86, UMich an 85, and Illinois Wesleyan an 87 on a scale of 60-99.</p>
<p>I have never heard anyone say that Illinois Wesleyan is ranked higher academically than NYU or UMichigan overall. I posted how each school is ranked overall by US News and World Report's college rankings (although I frankly am not into rankings) and both NYU and UMich are ranked significantly higher overall than Illinois Wesleyan. But put aside either Princeton Review's "academic rating" or even US News and World Report's College Rankings. The fact remains that both NYU and UMich are more selective in admissions (acceptance rates) by a lot and that both universities' admitted students have higher academic stats than those admitted to Illinois Wesleyan. I imagine they are all fine schools academically. The academic level of the student body at UMich or NYU is higher overall than at Illinois Wesleyan. As this thread has something to do with finding schools one can be admitted to or not, it should be clarified the level of odds of being admitted to the schools being discussed.</p>
<p>Nothing against Illinois Wesleyan, but I don't think anyone in academia (or even in the general public) would posit that it is rated higher academically or is more selective, academically or artistically, than are NYU or Michigan. That's just not true, regardless of the fact that IWU is no doubt a very good school.</p>