<p>True...kiddo is aware that a safety must be a school where she "fits," where she can see herself succeed, where she feels that she would be happy to go....so how does one go about choosing which of the non-audition programs are truly jewels, and which are "a school that offers musical theatre-ish classes".</p>
<p>Daughter is a h.s. junior, and feeling overwhelmed by the huge number of schools out there (and now that her name has been sold...the number of mailings that arrive daily with the glossy viewbooks).</p>
<p>So...any advice on places to look? Her guidance counsellor doesn't quite know what to do with this kid...</p>
<p>We're in the midwest, but being close to home isn't critical. She's a very, very strong dancer and strong academically (Top 5% of a small, suburban public school). Hoping for some academic/talent $$s. She wants a strong training program with a degree at the end. </p>
<p>So far, the audition/BFA programs she's considering include:
UMich
Penn State
Otterbein
CCM
Baldwin-Wallace
Elon
Indiana U/Bloomington
Texas State
Shenandoah
Oklahoma City University
Oklahoma (maybe...)
U Arts
Ball State (her voice teacher is calling that a safety for her...but I believe they are an auditioned admittance)</p>
<p>College visits are being planned, and I expect she will pare the list down a bit...but I think she's really filled it with high-stakes, audition-based BFA programs. (All well and good if she's accepted...but a safety or two is a lovely thing).</p>
<p>So...anybody got any insight on some excellent non-audition (or audition later to enter BFA) programs that she should investigate? Strong dance is very important to her (and no, she doesn't want to be a dance major...she's got that part pretty much figured out -- it's MT or bust!)</p>
<p>If her stats are high, how about Northwestern? It’s supposed to be an amazing theater program, in a very strong university, no audition. (Though I think maybe MT is an audition at the end of the first year?) And Temple-- MT is auditioned but less competitive. Still, those aren’t true safeties. Everyone talks about Muhlenberg, and it sounds like a great program and one that would be a safety for her…but will it have the depth of MT training she wants? For some the answer would be no. I’ve also heard Boston College mentioned for MT</p>
<p>I’m sure you’ve looked above for the non-auditioned programs. (Catawba?) And Skidmore is said to have great dance as well as theater. But I’ve looked into this a lot, and I find myself thinking that it’s going to take a special trip to visit the possible safeties, see a production, talk to the department, etc. A few great teachers, and a school that really cares about its program, can make all the difference but that doesn’t show up online.</p>
<p>There are existing threads where non-audition BA programs have been listed and discussed in depth. If you do a search on this forum for BA, B.A., non-audition etc they will pop up.</p>
<p>Northwestern is an extremely selective school academically and therefore for many students is not a safety - in fact, even if you seem to fit right in the middle of the pack there, I don’t know if I would consider it a safety. In addition, as Gwen points out, a student must audition after freshman or sophomore year to get into the MT certificate program.</p>
<p>Muhlenberg is another school that is strong academically but is not as demanding for admissions as Northwestern. However, you need very strong academics for it to be considered a safety and even then, interviewing with admissions is highly recommended because the school takes a very holistic approach in the admissions decisions. Students who are seeking MT usually major in theater performance (acting) and then load up on dance throigh the dance department and voice through the music department. The school stages 2 main stage musicals a year and runs a summer stock series of musicals where students can work side by side with professionals. The theater facilities are great and are housed in a relatively new performing arts center. There are many students who attend and even more who apply who would be equally at home in a BFA program but for their desire to have the breadth of a BA. In the world of BA programs, it is a very strong contender.</p>
<p>Skidmore has an excellent theatre program but from what I recall from when we were checking it out for my daughter 3 years ago or so, it is more acting/drama oriented. At the time, the theatre department did not stage musicals (per the department website) but I understand student groups did. Check out its website closely for current info.</p>
<p>As to Temple, while its MT concentration is only a few years old, it is audition based. It is becoming better known nationally and more selective. My daughter has been in summer shows with Temple MT students and they would be competitive at any BFA program. The folks who run the MT concentration are considered to be the “real deal” by pros in the Philadelphia area that I’ve spoken to. I wouldn’t consider Temple a safety if your intent is to audition for the MT concentration. The straight BA program would probably be a safety based on the general description you gave of your daughter’s academics.</p>
<p>There is a ton of info available from school websites as you compile a list of BA programs. In addition to perusing the department webpages, there’s a lot that can be gleaned from taking a close look at the posted curriculum and then pulling up the course catalogue to get more in depth info on the courses mandated and also available as electives. You can also often find bios on the theater department faculty and even the existence of the bios tells you something about the focus given to the theatre program. Sometimes the school websites are like peeling back layers of an onion!</p>
<p>michaelnkat, that’s great info-- I wish I could find a thread where safeties were discussed in depth, though. I’ve mostly found lists of the usual suspects and the typical cautions.</p>
<p>It would be great if people who’ve been through it would say what they used as backup plans, and why. Maybe I should start a thread asking that-- everyone is looking for something slightly different, so it would be great to see the different fallback plans others have had. (Even if they never had to use them.)</p>
<p>Almost every liberal arts program in the country has some kind of theatre “program”, so you’re looking at hundreds of programs when searching for good non-audition safeties. Set some other criteria for what you want in a school (geographic location, small vs. large, academic selectivity) and spend some dedicated time googling theatre majors at the schools you come up with, focusing on CURRICULA and THEATRE SEASONS for the past few years. That’s a great way to quickly get a sense of whether you fit with a school’s sensibility. Also, pay attention to the way schools describe their programs on their websites, which gives you a strong sense of their educational focus and training philosophy. Although this isn’t a list, it’s a generally helpful way to find “gems” that really fit individual students.</p>
<p>I recently heard about somebody who attended The College of William and Mary in Virginia and double majored in theatre and history. I’d never even heard of that school for theatre, but apparently it is pretty good.</p>
<p>The young lady in question went on to a career as a MT professional (in regional theatre, in the Seattle area) after she graduated. </p>
<p>Possibly you might look at William and Mary’s website as a point of reference. I was looking at it and noticed there is a minor in dance. It might be really important for you to evaluate how good a safety school’s dance offerings are, Mommafrog, as well as their theatre offerings per se.</p>
<p>“Almost every liberal arts program in the country has some kind of theatre “program”, so you’re looking at hundreds of programs when searching for good non-audition safeties.”</p>
<p>Yes, CoachC – that’s where things are right now – hundreds of overwhelming choices! And dd is definitely looking for that “jewel” out there… It’s a lot to take in and pare down. We appreciate the ideas and thoughts given so far…keep 'em coming!</p>
<p>I just want to point out that “safety school” is not synonymous with “non-audition” school. For example, Northwestern is nobody’s safety. Someone mentioned William and Mary which is quite selective and would not be a safety school. I have a former student who was very involved and well trained in MT, did Cherubs, and could have gotten into a BFA but wanted a BA and is at William and Mary now. She was a top student academically speaking. </p>
<p>A “safety” school is a relative term in relation to each applicant’s qualifications. The student’s academic profile needs to be in the upper range for that specific college and the school should not have a low acceptance rate either. </p>
<p>It would be difficult to suggest safety schools in a blanket way on a message board because one person’s safety is another person’s reach school. </p>
<p>I will mention to mommafrog that Hofstra has a BA with no audition in Theater and after two years, one can audition for a BFA track. There is also a MT Minor. They have a good dance department. It is near NYC. I would need to have your daughter’s entire academic profile and other information to determine if this is a safety school. You seem to indicate she is a very strong student and so perhaps this may be a safety but I don’t have enough information to go by.</p>
<p>There are threads on this forum of non-audition BA schools, however. That would be a starting point and you’d have to assess if your child’s academic profile would make each of those schools a reach, match, or safety.</p>
<p>By the way, Ball State’s BFA is by audition. NO audition schools could be considered a safety for anyone. Certain BFAs may be considered “easier” odds than other BFAs, for sure, but none have “sure bet” odds.</p>
<p>I appreciate your saying that, soozie. There’s been a bit of wording in some threads of “reach” schools in theater - such as advice not just to apply to the “biggies” (usually defined as CMU, Tisch, CCM, etc.) and to add “not as competitive” auditioned schools to one’s list. But from what I can see, the odds really aren’t better at any school that auditions, so I’m at a complete loss in understanding how to look at the schools we’re choosing, how to build a good list. Mostly it seems just that we should have as many as possible! That means including programs in schools where my D wouldn’t ever really want to go, but I guess that’s just part of the deal, to be happily in a BFA program, period.</p>
<p>Roosevelt U and Columbia College in Chicago are often suggested as very good programs within an arts-focused community, that don’t require auditions and are safeties for someone who has the stats for a school like Northwestern. They’re a good match for a B student. But soozie or another professional could tell us if there are any concerns about these programs.</p>
<p>We are very much in this same position, and I think my D will apply to non-auditioned schools based first on making sure the theater dept sounds good enough for her, and then seriously on feeling that she would enjoy the place as a college in general (Bard, for example, is on her list, although it’s a high match, by no means a safety). Some schools she just loves - she’s saying now she’ll apply to BU’s regular college even if she doesn’t get into the BFA (and even their theater minor is auditioned!) just because she loves the school and feels right there. She knows she could do an MFA afterwards if this doesn’t work out next year. But luckily she’s willing to think about taking a little longer to achieve this goal.</p>
<p>I’m from Virginia and William and Mary is certainly not known for their Theatre or Musical Theatre program within the state. Glenn Close did graduate from that program but that was in the mid seventies. </p>
<p>One BA program not mentioned on this Forum is at the University of Virginia. I will say first that the academic standards are high for admission. Degrees offered are: Drama Major/Minor, Dance Minor, Acting, and Playwriting. It looks like they require a Fine Arts Supplement Submission Information/Evaluation for admission to the program is and there is an admission committee. My daughter has friends who are Acting Majors at UVA and are talented kids who are cast in the musicals and are good vocalists, actors, and dancers. Production opportunities are interesting- they have a First Year Players for freshmen which produces two musicals each year. In addition, I would say they offer 6-8 main stage productions during the school year which include Musicals. During the summer, Heritage Theatre Festival at UVA produces 5-6 shows, usually half are musicals. There are Equity guest artists, paid student performers and community actors involved. Auditions for Heritage Theatre Festival take place for UVA students on campus as well as SETC. There is a lot of information on their website.</p>
<p>Angie, for out of state students, UVA is extremely competitive to get into. It is good to have BAs on a college list that are not safeties because they are good in theater. UVA, Brandeis, Northwestern are examples, but just are not examples of safeties. </p>
<p>EmmyBet…the BFA part of your D’s list should be balanced academically (academic reach, match, safety) AND artistically (highly selective BFAs and some BFAs that may have less competitive talent pools but still very low admit rates) and then two BAs that are ALSO academic safeties. The student may ALSO have some BAs on the list that are strong for theater or MT but are not safeties (example: Northwestern).</p>
<p>Roosevelt is not a safety. It is a BFA BY AUDITION. It is “less competitive” than some other BFAs such as UMich, CCM, CMU, Tisch, etc. But it can’t be a “sure bet”. It balances out a list of very competitive BFAs, however. </p>
<p>Columbia College has no audition but you are not truly accepted into the MT program as a freshman. You have to audition for that after the first year and they take just a small percentage of their freshmen into the MT program at that juncture and so if you go there, there is no guarantee that you will make it into the program. Columbia College is surely a safety school for anyone because they accept nearly 100% of their applicants and so it can be counted on. As a parent, I feel you should examine their very low graduation rate (would be a negative to me as a parent) and also their housing availability.</p>
<p>Another way to add balance to a list is to have some BA by audition schools which are still selective but usually not quite as low odds as selective BFA programs. These would not be safety schools but would be one slot on the list to add balance of odds. Examples may be JMU, Wagner, Temple, American, and several others. One would still need non-audition safeties.</p>
<p>On our track last year, we researched our region, the northwest, and picked 2 schools, one audition and one not, in cities she would be happy to live in. These were BA acting with MT track…great theater towns so lots of opportunity and almost sure acceptance and $$. She had these under her belt with acceptances before starting out for Unifieds and campus auditions…so still pressure but nice to know you were already in 2 good schools before the heavy duty BFA auditions. Looking back I think we could have trimmed her list and added a few different ones…as the acceptance numbers are so small. But she chose the schools she would have been happy to attend…which she could do as she had backups in place. It all worked out great and she got the BFA she wanted.The audition process was fun for her and made many friends in the process.</p>
<p>You might also want to consider which schools are financial safeties. My D’s first choice school, which was not her academic safety but it was non-audition, she was accepted to, but did not do well enough on standardized tests to compensate for out-of-state tuition. So she will not be attending unless somewhere, some how a new pot of money appears.
D will need a combination of academic and artistic scholarships for many of the programs she would like to attend. Currently her best financial bet is a school she likes, but artistically was very disappointed in, but it is/was truly her safety.</p>
<p>keepingcalm…good point about a financial safety. </p>
<p>I do want to say that one should keep in mind that the sticker price may not be the final price and so to not limit applications based on sticker price until you see the need based aid offered or merit based aid offered. It may not turn out as predicted until you see the final package.</p>