<p>Just to be clear, I also have no doubt that IWU is a very good school. In fact, I have suggested it to several students with whom I work. I even have a student applying there for next year. The student is an excellent academic student. Even so, I would rate her ACADEMIC chances at UMich or NYU as a match but her ACADEMIC chances at IWU as a safety given her stats. Artistically, I would say that UMich and NYU will be more selective and competitive for the student than IWU. Nonetheless, I still recommend IWU. But one must assess their odds of admission to colleges both academically and artistically. The odds both academically and artistically of getting into IWU are greater than at either NYU/Tisch or UMich for MT. Applicants would be wise to balance their college lists with a range of odds in terms of academics and artistic selectivity vis a vis their personal academic and artistic qualifications. All three are great schools.</p>
<p>I also would posit that the applicant pool to the BFA in MT program at IWU differs OVERALL in scope than at either NYU or UMich. For example, in my D's circle of talented MT peers from a range of states along the Eastern seaboard, none applied to IWU and almost every single one applied to UMich and NYU/Tisch. All are currently attending selective BFA programs. These three schools draw from a different pool of applicants. I believe that IWU is known more on a regional scale (though that likely will change as more hear of it, for example, on forums like this one) and UMich and NYU/Tisch are known on a more national scale and draw applicants accordingly.</p>
<p>NMR- re-read my original post I did not say anything about IWU being more selective academically or artistically! As a matter of fact I was recommending it because I thought it would be a good BA safety school for the original poster. I did then compare it to NYU and U of Mich academically with the point being you would get a top notch education there.</p>
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Soozie, do you know if test scores trump grades in admissions decisions to some of the larger schools, say BU and NYU?
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<p>It is hard to generalize about all schools. I also do not see a correlation with it being a "larger" school. In any case, most private schools tend to use holistic admissions processes. It is not based on numbers. This is particularly true at very selective schools where a majority of applicants have the requisite stats in the ballpark in the first place. </p>
<p>I can speak of NYU as an example as my kid goes there. They look at all pieces....the test scores, the grades, the GPA, the class rank, the rigor of the curriculum taken in HS, the essays, the extracurricular activities and achievements, the recommendations, and so on. Test scores do not trump grades. At selective schools, one does need to have test scores in the "ballpark" for that school (see SAT or ACT score ranges for each school), but once they do, everything else matters and these other things, in fact, set one student apart from another. They do not admit based on numbers. In other words, they do not skim the highest SAT/ACT score applicants off the pile. Someone with lower scores can be admitted than someone who had higher scores because that applicant had many other attractive strengths. You will even see at elite schools like the Ivy League, that they turn away many who have perfect SAT scores or are even valedictorian. Being admitted is not only about the stats of the applicant but the entire package. They surely care about grades but also the level of HS classes one has chosen to take in the context of what is offered at their HS. So, when some posters post things like GPA and ask if that GPA is good enough to get in.....it is too limited because a college is going to look at how rigorous the curriculum is, how the student ranked in their own HS, and so on. I know that NYU surely looks at the essays too. I recall when my own kid was chosen to be a Tisch Scholar, something I had never heard of until she got the letter, it outlined the basis of their selection and as soon as I read it, I could readily see that some things she talked about in her essays and her activity resume (and likely in her recs as well), played a part in that selection. They had to have read and weighed those things because the criteria was not simply about grades at all. I am sure there are lots of kids who got into her college with better grades even who are not a Scholar. They look at leadership, for example. That isn't shown in the grades or the SAT scores.</p>
<p>In any case, no, I don't think SAT scores trump grades or anything else at these schools. I think one needs to have academic stats in the ballpark for any selective school but since so many applicants to selective colleges have that, it is all the other parts of the application that sets one candidate apart from another. The adcoms don't simply skim the top test score or GPA kids off the application pile. However, at many large STATE/PUBLIC universities....admissions is more number driven than at these selective privates that go by more holistic admissions.</p>
<p>I also think West Chester could be a good choice - good location, beautiful state of the art facilities and rolling admissions. You can apply early and have a decision in November. </p>
<p>Also, you really cannot judge a school academically based on Princeton Review. The rankings are based largely on student surveys which are highly subjective - so what you get is how students feel about their education. Some data is used - like class size - but deciding that Illinois Wesleyan is better academically that UM or NYU based on the PR just doesn't make sense.</p>
<p>Many schools use a sort of matrix approach for test scores and grades, so it depends where your combo sits on the chart as to what trumps the other. THe problem with all of this, is that the numbers are often a moving target as many factors are in admissions. It depends on the current crop of applicants. You can be out of luck with numbers that would be fine if your year has some high wheelers in the crowd.</p>
<p>Also with audition schools, the audition counts heavily and may change the very matrix of the schools. I know that Michigan will give some leeway in academic stats for audition students. Most schools will assess after the auditions and may give leeway to slightly lower academic stats for those who have very high audition evaluations. It is just wise to keep in mind that the academic profile can figure in the admissions decision, so those kids who are borderline in that area should not be counting on the audition or talent to override that situation. Not to say that you should eliminate all such schools on your list. But the safety schools should be safety in terms of academic and audition factors.</p>
<p>When it comes to BFA, Illinois Wesleyan's program is auditioned based... very difficult to get into. I think they try to take 4 girls and 4 boys a year.</p>
<p>To the OP, please do a CC search on Muhlenberg... there is lots of information out there. I think with your D's stats, she would qualify for some good scholarship money. However, Muhlenberg's admissions is somewhat skewed from other schools. This year, 70% of their incoming class was accepted EA, so it's become very competitive to get into, especially if you wait until regular decision. Please feel free to PM me - my daughter just finished her freshman year as a vocal performance and theatre performance major; she takes as many dance classes as will fit in her schedule. She also is in the middle of Kiss Me Kate right now, one of three of the summer stock musicals they produce every summer, so she's had a taste of working with people outside of the school, too, and has learned tremendously from the experience.</p>
<p>yes columbia college chicago has both a bfa and a ba!!! no audition for ba and audition for bfa.... ba's also now have an informal audition at orientation for placement, but the ba is not very performance based!</p>
<p>teriwtt- I was recommending the BA non-audition program at Illinois Wesleyan to the OP because she was strong academically. This would be a nice safety school for someone with her numbers. She could then audition for BFA/MT for her sophomore year.</p>
<p>MTDad777 - that's fine... I just didn't want anyone to get the impression here that IWU doesn't offer a BFA program that is indeed very competitive.</p>
<p>In the fall I will be attending the University of New Hampshire as a freshman. I'd like to fill you in about what I do know as of now about the program. It is a non audition BA degree in theatre with a musical theatre concentration. My fall course load includes music theory, ballet, and private voice along with a few liberal arts requirements. As I look over the requirements needed to fulfill the concentration it will be an intense four years. I hope to inform you about wonderful things about the program as the year gets under way.</p>
<p>Are you taking voice lessons with a teacher at UNH or another teacher in the local area? Just curious, because voice lessons do not appear to be part of the requirements for the major concentration. On the website it says "Students in the major are given vocal study awards to offset the cost of private lessons from a teacher of their choice." Did the department help you find a voice teacher, or give you a list of teachers to contact?</p>
<p>I know people who have attended the MT program at UNH and really liked it. Have a great year!!</p>
<p>In my opinion, I wouldn't go by rankings or word of mouth on this board (which is obviously biased in favor of certain schools) I would visit the schools and see some of their productions, that is how you are going to know if the school is any good, look at their finished products. Also find out when their senior showcases are and catch a couple of those. Also, which a lot of people have over-looked, check out the credentials of the professors and instructors. Find out it they ever worked on broadway or trained anyone who got anywhere close.</p>
<p>certainly..but the suggestions listed on this board have definitely broadened the scope of schools to look into further. I appreciate everyone's comments.</p>
<p>In my view, this forum has a Big List (see the FAQ link) of all MT programs in the country (a list that would be hard to come by on one's own) as well as has individual forums on a wide array of MT programs, as well as many discussions about schools on the main MT Forum. This forum would expose many to lots of MT programs and not just certain schools or so called prestigious ones. In fact, until I came to CC six years ago, I had not ever heard of certain MT programs that I now know about. I am hoping that the many students who have very limited knowledge of programs available except a few name schools on everyone's tongue, so to speak, will get exposed to a variety of possible programs here and even possibly more suitable ones for themselves. The beauty of this forum is that it is not just centered on a handful of "name" schools. I wish more people found the forum because I meet families who have ONLY heard of "name schools" and I have to introduce them and convince them to consider many other great MT options out there where they may increase their odds of going to a BFA program.</p>
<p>I also don't think this forum is biased. One thing I love about it is that a wide array of perspectives and opinions are shared on schools and it helps to hear from so many people.</p>
<p>I have noticed that "certain" people are biased and in favor of "certain" schools I just hope the new posters can see that. I hope they don't think that if they can't afford a certain school or it is to far away or whatever reason they don't go that they'll have a harder time making it on broadway or whatever they want to do. There are more people in the business that never finished college or even went to college then those who went to these "top-tier" schools.</p>
<p>I think it has been brought up time and again on this forum (and I surely know that I personally hold this view) that no college is a guarantee of success in this field and that many who ARE successful on stage come from MANY different schools.....also BFAs or BAs and even NON theater majors and even no college at all. </p>
<p>The ones who think they have to go to a 'brand name' school are the ones who have NOT read the forum and informed themselves. But for anyone who has read this forum, I would hope that their views are widened and they have a much broader picture of the possibilities. It is the ones who lack this knowledge who haven't read up on this, who th ink they must have a certain school in order to "go to Broadway" (which is also such a narrow definition of success). The forum itself reveals a much broader view and a wealth of perspectives and opinions from some very knowledeable folks. I have learned a lot here. I hope others have as well.</p>
<p>Speaking for myself, I do not favor my children's schools. I do not think they are the right fit for some people. I also do not think they are the best schools out there. However, I can speak about their schools as I know them very well more than schools I have researched or merely visited. Talking of what I know doesn't mean that I am biased in thinking these schools are better than any other. What I find of such great value here is that I can hear from current students, alum, and parents associated with various programs and get the "skinny." If people like their schools, all the better. But I am also interested in hearing what they don't like. For instance, on the MT Forum in the past, I have shared some constructive criticism of the auditions at my child's college which as a point of comparison to the 7 others I had attended, had room for improvement. I don't like the school any less, but shared what I knew. Sharing a school one is attached to doesn't then imply that one thinks it is the greatest. I doubt my kids' schools are the best. I only know my kids love 'em. They most likely would have been just as happy at some other schools but I am happy that they are happy where they go. I hope that for every child and parent here.</p>
<p>When a poster asks for suggestions on programs with whatever specific criteria it may be (in this case, Safety Schools for MT), they will receive responses from a variety of people with SUGGESTIONS of schools to add to a list of schools to research. It is natural that those replying are going to suggest schools/programs with which they are familiar. I have never taken that to mean that there is "bias" in regard to programs mentioned, just that they are familiar with that program and are suggesting it as something to look into. </p>
<p>This forum was the best thing that happened to my son and I; and we are so fortunate to have found it. I am CERTAIN that he would not have had the acceptance outcome that he had without all the knowledge and recommendations we received from all the helpful people on this forum. Yes, he had the talent but we were VERY naive about the process and had no idea about what schools were out there. </p>
<p>Keep asking questions and then using the answers/suggestions you receive to supplement your own research. Thank you to all who give so graciously of their time on this forum!!!</p>