Good School for Dual Degree/Double Major in Music Perfrmance and X

College Majors Music Major
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<p>Hi guys, after being a long time lurker of these threads, I've come to ask for advice concerning my future choice in college. Before I ask my question, I think that some background information could help you guys answer it.</p>

<p>So basically, I am a rising junior soon to become senior in the class of 2013 who lives in Texas. I have a pretty strong academic record, with a 226 on the PSAT, a 2210 on the SAT, all A's with a GPA of 99 out of 100 (my school doesn't do 4.0's and such), placing me in the top 10 kids at my school, and am part of National Honors Society. I got a 750 on my SAT II for World History and plan on taking 2-3 more in 2 weeks, and I take all the the offered Pre-Ap, Honor, AP courses at my school that are allowed in a curriculum. </p>

<p>In terms of music, I am a classical pianist, and have been learning for 13 years since the age of 4. I do a lot of festivals and compete in various competitions that are state wide. Recently, I got 2nd place in a solo competition at the Texas Music Teachers Association convention, 1st at a solo competition at Baylor University in Waco, and 1st in a competition at SMU. There have been several other competitions and scholarships that I've won over the past couple of years, but I don't remember them all off the top of my head. I've also been the church pianist at the church I attend since 6th grade, so I have experience accompanying singers and other musicians. I'm also the pianist in the orchestra of my school. I am very passionate about music, and my repertoire is pretty expansive thanks to my teacher so I don't have much problem interpreting and learning new music. </p>

<p>For leadership, I organize musicians I know to play at various charity/nonprofit events. I also hold or have held leadership positions for a couple of other clubs at my school that do more ordinary community service things. I also volunteer at my local hospital in whatever free time I have, which is mostly during the summer.</p>

<p>So if you've stuck through reading this wall of text, my question is what schools want or fit the kind of student I am? With an academic record typical of someone who would apply to a selective school, and musical achievements and a passion that reflect someone who would apply to a conservatory or music school of some sort, I'm looking for a school that has a reputation for high academical achievements and a strong music faculty for piano performance, so that I can pursue both in college. I've heard of programs such as Harvard/NeC, Oberlin, and Eastman, but I don't think I have a very good and complete idea of the colleges that fit my niche. Also, is the double major/dual degree in Music and something else even worth pursuing in the long run? I still don't know which career path I want to chose yet, so that is why I'm looking for programs like these.</p>

<p>Thanks for reading through this and offering suggestions!</p>

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<p>I think you mean that you’re going to be a rising senior and you seem well qualified, but none of us know the level of your playing, so we can only give surface advice.
Have you visited any schools? Do you have any geographical preferences or restrictions? Large school, small school? Has your current teacher mentioned any schools or suggested any particular teacher for future study?
Many of us can tell you about the schools our kids attend -or there are some students on here who can give you first-hand info. Tell us more about your preferences!</p>

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<p>Now that my son has finished the third year of a double degree program I would say the best reason for such a pursuit is not for career reasons or indecisiveness, but because of the great pleasure in seriously pursuing another subject in depth in addition, but not to the detriment, of his musical pursuits. The academic courses stimulate him as much as the musical ones so that he’s not ready to give up any of it. The career path is actually the musical one - the academic path is the one for fun. Will he get two Masters? I doubt it. But then you never know!</p>

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<p>Here, first read this excellent (long, but worth ii) on the Peabody admissions page on the “double degree dilemma.” This forum frequently refers posters with your question to this very useful piece.</p>

<p>There are lots of double degree programs: Oberlin, Bard, Lawrence, Rochester/Eastman. Hopkins/Peabody, Harvard/NEC, Tufts/NEC and others. In the schools I know about, the BA has to be in something other than music, with the exception of Harvard’s BA/MM program with NEC.</p>

<p>What academic areas are you interested in? Are you thinking about doing a BA along with a BM because of geniuine interest, or because you are thinking about how to make a living (a bachelor’s in music is as good as any other bachelor’s for that, and many of us find that there are careers in music beyond performing).</p>

<p>Don’t forget that you can do a BA in something else, study piano privately, practice, and perform either with extracurricular college ensembles/orchestra or outside of school.</p>

<p>Have you done any music theory, musicology, or music history? A BM is a rigorous program that includes those and other subjects as well as performance.</p>

<p>Double degree programs are 5 years, as I’m sure you know.</p>

<p>Come on back here after you read the Peabody piece!</p>

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<p>Another possibility: Juilliard-Columbia Exchange.</p>

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<p>Remember that college is one station in the journey. While deciding on schools, be thinking of what you plan to do, what are your priorities, and how you plan to achieve what you have determined to be your goals. Once you have a sense of yourself in this way, it is easier to look at schools.</p>

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<p>This week’s Newsweek features a nice column by Jeremy Denk on his experience double majoring in piano and chemistry at Oberlin: [Pianist</a> Jeremy Denk’s Favorite Mistake: Ditching Science - The Daily Beast](<a href=“http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/05/20/pianist-jeremy-denk-s-favorite-mistake-ditching-science.html]Pianist”>http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/05/20/pianist-jeremy-denk-s-favorite-mistake-ditching-science.html)</p>

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<p>I love reading Jeremy Denk! Btw,. despite his mistake he teaches piano (to a select few) at Bard Conservatory to those double degree pianists!</p>

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<p>I’m interested in continuing music because I love it, but I also don’t want to shut out the opportunity to become a serious performer. I also want to do school and have that as an option as well when I graduate. Business and political science come to mind as things that interest me in school.</p>

<p>I don’t have any geographical preferences and my teacher hasn’t suggested any places for future studies because she herself doesn’t advocate the path that I want to take as a professional musician, mainly because she’s seen a lot of kids try it and fail.</p>

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<p>After reading the Peabody article, I would like to clarify that I’m interested in the BM, not a BA in music.</p>

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<p>Searching for “Double Degree” in the titles of threads on the Music Forum yielded many many threads. Check some of them out, as we’ve hashed over these issues many a time before… [College</a> Confidential - Search Results](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/search.php?searchid=38872926]College”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/search.php?searchid=38872926)</p>

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<p>Nocturnus, I wanted to comment on something you wrote about your teaching not advocating the path you want to take because she has seen many try it and fail.</p>

<p>First: What is wrong with failure? Failure can be an amazing learning experience and is a useful part of life. Being fearful or making choices because you are afraid of failing is never a good idea. And unfortunately too many young people choose to go that route. But imagine all the things we would not have if life was dominated by people who were afraid of failure? </p>

<p>Second: I have to give credit to my son’s wonderful private instructor who, when I told him my son was worried because all he wanted to do was major in performance but that every musician he talked to told him not to, said “wonderful because it is that sort of determination and passion about performance that one needs in order to succeed.” If you don’t have that hunger and desire you won’t make it.</p>

<p>Finally remember that learning does not stop just because you are not in school for something. And getting a “degree/certification” in a subject is not the only way to become educated in that area. I have one child who has self-taught himself quite a bit, in addition to his liberal arts education, by using MIT’s online courseware and reading. Figure out how you want to spend your time and what matters most to you. </p>

<p>To quote one wonderful teacher I know who works with challenging teens in a therapeutic school, too many people think of college as an end point and instead it is just a starting point.</p>

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<p>Folks have mentioned many of the exceptional BM/BA five programs - Oberlin, Bard, Peabody/Hopkins, NEC/Tufts etc. The advantage of Oberlin and Bard is that you are taking the classes for both degrees on the same campus and you are fully intergrated into the colleges. The programs are hard enough without having to add commuting time into the mix.</p>

<p>I would like to restate something I said in another thread. Our world would be so much poorer if our artsy kids did not follow their passions.</p>

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<p>I know that they say “for every amazingly talented and successful musician, there are 50 Baristas at Starbucks.” (If it;ds nto a saying it should be!)</p>

<p>But we might also be positive and think “For every 50 musicians who try and fail the world discovers one truly amazing talent who inspires others, moves listeners to both tears and laughter, and even makes a living doing something he loves.” Those 50 who failed can move forward knowing they gave it their best shot - never living with regret or wondering “what if?” </p>

<p>So how thankful must we all be that 51 parents didn’t tell their kids to “be practical and choose a more traditional path.” Maybe that would have worked for 50 - but the world would have missed out on that one special talent. </p>

<p>The good news is - you still get a college degree, you still become a critical thinker with a strong work ethic, and if your musical pursuits end without becoming a famous performer, you’re still in your 20s and you have a lifetime to discover your true calling. Even the most active posters on here have no guarantee their kid will be “the one” - but it sure is fun watching them try!</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>I think in some ways, the whole idea of “making it” is becoming a little dated, because many musicians have become very entrepreneurial and make their own opportunities these days. There are also a lot of opportunities in music outreach careers. You are already organizing music events for charity and will be able to do internships that will build your skills and experience.</p>

<p>Many people I know who majored in music, dance, theater or art have a day job- and often one just as good as someone who majored in something else- and then do their art on their own time, at least until they can support themselves with it.</p>

<p>There are many kinds of jobs associated with music, as well.</p>

<p>Finally, as I have written umpteen times, a few years back I read that music majors, as a group, have the highest admit rate to medical school. You don’t need to want to go to med school to see the point.</p>

<p>You mention your academic stats but not your interests. What are they?</p>

<p>You are involved in music in a lot of different ways. That’s great, and no matter what path you choose, you will be able to continue that.</p>

<p>So, you can do a double degree program, you can do a BM at a conservatory/music school, you can do a BA in music or in any other subject and practice/perform on your own or in college extracurriculars, and you can apply for all these options and decide on May 1 of your senior year.</p>

<p>It does sound like a double degree at Bard or Oberlin or Lawrence would work great for you. But there are academically talented kids doing music at conservatories, and musically talented kids doing economics at universities (or doing academic music), so consider all options until things are clearer!</p>

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<p>I haven’t seen Northwestern mentioned up there, so I’ll throw it into the mix. I’m wrapping up my 3rd of 5 years in the double degree program getting a BM in Tuba performance and a BA in Political Science. Northwestern has the advantages of Oberlin where you’re taking all your classes for both degrees on one campus (one school also means only one application!). </p>

<p>As just an account of personal experience, I applied to universities specifically with double degree programs in mind. Of the ones mentioned already in this thread, I also applied to Hopkins/Peabody and Oberlin. Northwestern by and far had the best laid out and best supported double degree program of any school I applied to and there is a considerable double degree community, and therefore a good amount of peer and studio support, here at Northwestern. Also, I noticed you listed political science and business as possible academic interests. Northwestern has a couple excellent undergraduate business programs, and from first hand experience I can say that the political science faculty are top-notch as well.</p>

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<p>More and more college students are doing 2 things: double majors/concentrations, 1 major + 1 minor, or double degrees. Many of the employers of our students told me that they do not hire students without 2 things anymore.</p>

<p>For piano performance students, I think whether one should do 2 things depends on what type of pianist he/she is. Some students need 6-7 hours of practice at the college level. This excludes the possibility of dual degree. There are pianists who would never want to practice 6-7 hours a day. If you are an effiicient learner and require only 2-3 hours of practice a day, dual degree becomes a possibility. In this case, dual degree can be very good for piano performer.</p>

<p>Being a good piano or music performer requires the performer to be orginal. To be original often requires one to be able to think critically and independently. A liberal arts education in any thing, e.g., philosophy, economics, etc., is to help young students think critically.</p>

<p>Many big name musicians had a liberal arts training: YoYo Ma, Emanual Ax, etc.</p>

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<p>ABC, a double degree is different from a double degree. The programs listed on this thread are mostly double degree programs, meaning a BA and BM (5 years) or BA and MM (also 5 years).</p>

<p>Musicians who want to practice a lot and perform at a high level can still do a bachelor’s in another subject. along with a bachelor’s in music, with a double degree. Dual degree (majoring in music and something else, at a college, and majoring, say, in piano and theory at a conservatory) is different. At least, that is my understanding.</p>

<p>Also, many college music majors do not even include much performance, but are academic. So, at those schools, doing a double degree with performance would require double degree arrangement between a college and conservatory/music school, like the ones listed.</p>

<p>Yo Yo Ma went to Harvard but got mostly C’s, I have heard, because he was already touring.</p>

<p>I am curious what you mean by employers preferring to hire students “with two things.” I have never heard that, and always thought they would prefer depth in one area. Then again, I don’t always think there is necessarily much connection between college major, whether single, double or dual, and eventual employment.</p>

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<p>Double degrees is not that different from double majors. Both mean that one learns two sets of skills and knowledge. The only difference is that the number of credits hours that can be double dipped for double degrees tends to be lower than double majors.</p>

<p>Earning Cs from Harvard is not a bad thing as long as the liberal arts education at Harvard gives one a new (critical) way of thinking. In addition, the net working at Harvard is probably more valuable than that at Juilliard or Curtis for a touring musician.</p>

<p>We are living in an increasingly complex world. Employers value those college graduates with interdisciplinary skills because the boundry between traditional fields is becoming less and less clear. Another reason for favoring 2 things is that college degree nowaday has become more a commodity item. In order to stand out among peers, 2 things has become a signal for efforts and capacity. By the same token, it used to be that if you have one internship on your resume, that would be good enough. But today students often have multiple internships on their resumes.</p>

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<p>Oops, meant double degree versus double major! Sorry!</p>

<p>From the Peabody site:
“One of the sources of confusion when dealing with the various “double” programs available is what to call them… The terms most often thrown around are “double major” and “double degree.” There is a big difference between the two…”</p>

<p>For one thing, double degrees take 5 years generally; double majors don’t. Double degrees can be bachelor’s and master’s, or two bachelor’s. Double degrees can involve two schools.</p>

<p>If you have some text to cite on the idea that employers are looking for double anything, I would like to see it. I personally value depth as well as breadth.</p>