GPA vs Classes taken

<p>Hi</p>

<p>I am wondering what I should do.</p>

<p>I have a really wide interest. I hope to do a double major in computer science and physics, with a minor in Thai.</p>

<p>However, in order to do so, I will need to overload my schedule, so I will end up taking 25% more classes than my peers. For instance, my peers have 4 classes per semester, I will have 5 classes.</p>

<p>Nevertheless, by taking more classes, my GPA suffers a bit. I can get around 3.9 easily with the normal course load, but now I will have around 3.7-3.8 due to overloading.</p>

<p>Is what I am doing terribly bad in the eyes of grad school deans later when I apply for grad schools? That is, by taking more (advanced) classes but hurting my GPA a bit.</p>

<p>Please help</p>

<p>A 3.8. Gosh, that GPA is so low I can't imagine anyone ever getting into grad school with it. You should give up now.</p>

<p>Perfection isn't necessary, esp. for hard sciences. Greatness, yes, but not perfection :p There's nothing wrong with taking classes you love for the sake of personal development--I'm sacrificing a few decimal points this year for Japanese, which is my absolute favorite subject (because I left the most icky science classes for last semester, /after/ grad schools had seen my transcripts >.>) and also completely unrelated to my degree.</p>

<p>If you're going to do this, though, make sure you get high grades in the subjects that matter. If you intend to go into physics, and it comes down to the last few hours of week in which you can finish a problem set or study for a Thai quiz, finish the problem set. The admissions committee of your future physics program won't really care if you get a low grade in Thai, unless your professor happens to be from Thailand.</p>

<p>thanks for the response, tkm256.</p>

<p>Seeing you from Bloominton though, tkm256, are you studying at Purdue or Rose-Hulman?</p>

<p>Any way, I heard something about the average GPA of applicants applying to Carnegie Mellon (my dream school for CS grad study) is something around 3.9. I know great GPA isn't everything, but I interpret it as something basic and taken for granted should some one try to apply for grad school like carnegie mellon.</p>

<p>Any more thought?</p>

<p>Obviously it would be great to have the best of both worlds, but I think (as long as you still end up with a 3.7-3.8, which is still really good) grad schools would prefer that option. If your goal in life is a 4.0, not to learn as much as you can, it's quite possible to pull it off, so it's not tremendously meaningful on its own (uncoupled from evidence that you've really used your coursework to challenge yourself). </p>

<p>I could just be rationalizing away my own decisions, though. I took the maximum number of credits allowed during most semesters, took classes from notoriously tough graders, and at one point, took four graduate courses at once. I emerged with only a 3.75. We'll see what that does to my application.</p>

<p>Seriously, get a life. Do a double major but no minor, or do a major and a minor. And do something on campus for mental breaks.</p>

<p>Grad schools really aren't interested in 4.0s as you think. Research and relevant classes counts for more. So yes, Thai should be more of an elective thing to do. How about auditing Thai classes so you can kind of come and go?</p>

<p>It's fairly clear to me that it's not going to be your GPA that's the problem - it's that if you overload on other courses, you may not get as much depth in your main major.</p>

<p>Remember, a grad school isn't looking for someone who loves learning -- it's looking for someone who's going to be a great researcher in the given field. If you can convince them that you're better than most candidates in your field (and not just through GPA), you'll have a good shot, but I'd be wary otherwise.</p>

<p>Remember, you can attend classes and learn from them in a lighter fashion than by brute force enrolling in them. Audit some fun stuff! It's not all about sitting in every class you want to take and doing every single assignment.</p>

<p>Of course, definitely focus on getting the best grades in the subject you want to study in grad school.</p>

<p>Oh and if you can establish synergy between two majors (e.g. math + physics --> mathematical physics) that might be good!!!</p>

<p>I think it has to be a balance. Don't take a course in Thai that is well known to be very difficult. But if you LOVE IT and you can get a decent grade, like an A- or whatever, do it. This is your time to take these courses!! I mean, yes, of course, grad schools want to see you did a lot of courses in what you are pursuing in grad school, but a few courses here and there about something you've always wanted to learn, do it, but make sure you do get a good grade as well. Most of the time, it shouldn't be a problem, since we tend to do well in courses we like, right. Just think, when will you have another time to take some of the awesome courses offered at university. But be smart about it too, there are some courses I would take but I know in the philosophy department at U Toronto, I mean, getting an 80 is often impossible, so, I wont, because ultimately, getting into grad school in neuro is way more important to me.</p>

<p>So, in conclusion, there's no clear answer. Just be smart about it.</p>

<p>the thing is, when I overload, I still get good grades in the classes I overloaded because I love them. The problem is, I spend even less time on the subjects I hate but still required, hence doing much worse in them and result in a lower GPA.</p>

<p>I feel that there is an utter lack of Thai speaking physicists. Drop the science and get really good at Thai. If there language is anything like their food, you will be quite happy.</p>

<p>Seriously, if you can't fulfill some stupid requirements list to "minor" or "major", take what you can. When all is said and done, you may not have some certificate, but you do have a large number of courses that you found interesting. That probably won't be lost on an admission committee or hiring manager.</p>

<p>About the Thai thing- I double majored in Hebrew. If Thai is as inaccessible as Hebrew is in the US, then it may not be worth pursuing, particularly not worth giving up courses relevant to your research for. Four years out of college and I speak substantially less Hebrew than I did when I started college.</p>

<p>I am confused. What does the OP want to go to grad school in? Honestly, I'd go to grad school in what I'm most interested in if that's at all possible. </p>

<p>My sincerest advice though is don't cram a major in a subject just because you like it, unless you want to take almost all the classes listed there. Better take tons of classes in the major you are going to grad school in, if you're really serious about grad school. Agreed, this is college, your chance to learn anything, but if you're serious about grad school and are doing a Ph.D...well that's GRAD SCHOOL. You're gonna be studying for possibly 5 yeas a particular subject, and you sure as heck would like to have some good admissions offers. Depth in the subject you apply under is crucial.</p>

<p>Wow, you are this obsessive and you're minoring in Thai? Mai pen rai. Thailand is a very sabai sabai place. You gotta learn to chill if you're interested in this place (I live in Bangkok)!</p>

<p>Good Luck</p>

<p>I don't get why you guys think that just because I am double majoring computer science and physics automatically means that I am just trying to cram stuff in and become superficial in my degree. The thing is, I am interested in doing grad study in this area called optical computing, and so it's really a mix of physics and computer. It just also happens that I really like physics and computer science.</p>

<p>You guys are saying kinda the opposite of what my professor told me, so I am a bit curious. My professor told me it's better to take classes you really enjoy to find out what's out there, so i don't have to be very specialized. He said I can specialize in grad school when I finally know the area I really want to do research on.</p>

<p>If I interpret you guys correctly, typically, grad schools just want candidates who are only narrowly focused in one subject all the way from their first year undergrad study?</p>

<p>As for Thai, it used to be my native language when I was very small, so learning Thai is more of a cultural reason rather than a lucrative one.</p>

<p>Your professor said to take a wide range of classes to see what's out there. Not to get a wide range of degrees. I don't think any of the other posters have said grad schools want narrow focus; they've said "Research and relative classes are more important," "don't cram a major...unless you want to take all the classes," or, most succinctly, "take what you can."</p>

<p>Nobody assumed you were being superficial. We assumed you hadn't yet found out how much of a degree can end up being superficial, and how unrelated having a degree is to being knowledgeable in a subject. Bull is rampant in a lot of department requirements. In order to get a BA in German at my school, five classes are needed after the initial language sequence; for a minor, three are needed after the sequence because one year of language no longer counts. To get a BS in psychology, students are required to waste hours of potential study time in Career Planning (which I dutifully took as a bushy-tailed freshman, and found it completely useless to those of us who didn't want to be social workers).</p>

<p>To get my biology degree, I had to take Evolution, which would have been fine in and of itself, but the professor confused the class with History of Science. Want to know the progression of scientific literature from ancient Greece, through Byzantium and the Islamic Empire, into Western Europe where Charlamagne instituted "chapel schools" which later evolved into the modern university system? Because I sure as heck didn't. If I didn't have to take that class for the degree, I would have left in the first week when he started on about Aristotle's four Causes.</p>

<p>The point is, don't kill yourself or your grades in gen. ed. because you feel you have to take five classes a semester to fulfill requirements for your degrees. It's great that you love physics and CS and want to learn a lot in both, but you don't have to learn it all /now/ or concurrently. Future adcoms will be more than content to see a single official degree in CS with impressive physics courses on the transcript, or vice versa.</p>

<p>ah... thanks for the help tkm256.</p>

<p>I was worried that, you know, maybe after 4 years, I want to go to do something in some physics-relate grad school in an area where CS is also very useful, but then because I only have a CS degree, my chance becomes lower because I am a CS guy. The thing is, at my school, if I am double majoring, I need to write two different theses, each for one major to receive qualifications in both. So I initially thought that if I can invest just a little more in physics to get the major, it will save the adcom a lot more time by looking just my resume to see what my interests are, before even seeing my transcript.</p>

<p>btw..</p>

<p>there's a difference between double degree and double major at my school. Double degree is a lot harder than double major, but I am not going to tell you guys the difference, but just wanna say that I am pursuing a double major, not double degree.</p>

<p>Maybe you could major in the subject you are MOST interested in pursuing, and minor in the other, along with Thai? That would give you a slightly lighter courseload, and still show dedication to both areas.... Anyway, as was said above, by no means do you have to have a BA/BS in a subject to do a graduate degree in that subject - you just have to have the necessary/relevant coursework and demonstrate the necessary skills and knowledge. I'd definitely vote for doing as much as you can, but not killing yourself/driving yourself insane in the process of trying to do EVERYTHING at once.</p>

<p>And although I'm in a different field, I'm speaking from experience. I did two majors and a minor, overloaded many semesters, and wrote two senior theses, and completely trashed my academic record in the process. It took me five years of job experience related to my field, and three post-bac institutions, to get accepted into a MASTER'S program at a decent-but-not-stellar State U. Don't do what I did!</p>

<p>Also, keep in mind that you can change your major/reshuffle things later - you're not locked into your decision from the very beginning. If you decide you hate the physics department, you can downgrade that to a minor, or drop it, or add a minor in underwater basketweaving if you feel like it. So don't kill yourself stressing now!</p>

<p>Oh, and a double degree is different from a double major at almost every school. All of the advice applies either way.</p>

<p>


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<p>Thanks for the invaluable advice from your experience.</p>

<p>However, what do you mean by 3 post-bac institutions? Do you mean grad schools?</p>