<p>It does matter if they decide to apply to something that requires high GPA later on. Nobody knows really what’s in the future.</p>
<p>It may matter.</p>
<p>However, except for grad school straight after college and maybe your first job, pretty much no one will ask you about your GPA.</p>
<p>Also, it depends on who’s looking at resumes. Someone who graduated with a STEM degree will almost certainly be more impressed by a student who got a 3.5 in a STEM/quantitative major than a student who got a 3.5 in a non-STEM/quantitative major. Likely be more impressed by a 3.5 in a STEM/quantitative major than a 3.9 in a non-STEM/quantitative major. I know I would be.</p>
<p>My brother applied to medical school after a degree in Engineering same with an ex-boyfriend applied to law school after a degree in engineering. So that’s where it might matter, not a STEM graduate degree.</p>
<p>Not only are the grades usually lower in STEM classes, but it also seems more common for schools to offer watered down STEM classes to their non-science majors than to offer easier non-STEM classes to their STEM majors.</p>
<p>Grade quotas vary on how they are used. We have an unofficial quota of 1/3rd As and Bs, 1/3rd Cs, and 1/3rd Ds and Fs. Sometimes there is not one A in the class. Sometimes there is not one F in the class. One time, it was a small class of 15 and there were 14 Cs and 1 B.</p>
<p>Companies do not really care though, especially if you are an engineer looking to be hired at a firm that employs all majors. You really need to be one of the best to get into big pharma as an engineer, for example.</p>
<p>I agree about the non-STEM major easy classes. An example is we cover 12 chapters in a freshman science course for STEM majors. The non-STEM majors take a 300-level course with the same book and cover only 6 chapters; both courses are 3 credits and count towards graduation.</p>
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<p>What you’re describing doesn’t sound like a quota. It sounds like a guideline. </p>
<p>Engineering is the hardest major(s) of them all others, there is no question about it. And the American k - 12 is NOT preparing kids for engineering at all, not even close to what is done in many other countries, including many in underdevelped world. It is sad story, but it is not a focus of this thread, it is just one of the reasons for lower engineering GPA.</p>
<p>My purpose in asking this question relates to prior guidance that I have given to my D. </p>
<p>I was an accounting undergrad, with a Finance MBA. D is interested in engineering and Computer Science, but also business. </p>
<p>I have guided her to pursue engineering and Computer Science and suggested that she could easily get an MBA later, but it would be hard to move from business to engineering later.</p>
<p>Now that I see the disparity in GPA between program, I am wondering whether even a strong engineering GPA may look weak compared to GPAs from other majors and really be harmful later.</p>
<p>Having never been in Engineering, I did not know that the disparity was as significant as it apparently is. </p>
<p>I still do not really understand why the faculty and administration at many colleges allow this to persist to the disadvantage of some of their hardest working and brightest students.</p>
<p>There are ton of colleges she could get an MBA from. I wouldn’t worry about that at all. </p>
<p>Business schools are less impressed with GPAs than either medical school or law school, ironically. I agree with your advice to your daughter. </p>
<p>Employers like engineers in general. They don’t have to worry that they have someone with good verbal and interpersonal skills, but without logic and math ability. </p>
<p>MBA is more work experience centric rather than GPA centric. But I think it’s unfair for kids who decided to change their minds afterwards and want to study medical or law schools.</p>
<p>My younger son pretty much felt he couldn’t afford to take any real math or science because every job and internship in IR asks about your overall GPA and his got depressed enough by his first two years of Arabic. Seemed too bad.</p>
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I would totally disagree with this statement. First, it’s difficult to quantify “hard” when it comes to different fields. Some fields require a great deal of “talent” and would be utterly impossible for many to navigate successfully. I, for example, can’t sing a note, so a major in Vocal Performance would never happen. I have little to no artistic talent and no imagination to draw, paint, or sculpt anything, so ditto the Studio Art majors. </p>
<p>Of the STEM majors, I personally find Math the hardest, since producing math proof requires a certain level of abstract processing, mostly beyond my capacities. After that, I would place Physics, since the applied math is the heaviest, and Quantum Mechanics is extremely difficult. The various engineering fields after that, order depending on personal proclivities, but Electrical Engineering probably the most abstract.</p>
<p>@Much2learn:</p>
<p>I believe that you gave good advice to your child. B-schools are much more practical and so care more about work experience than your GPA. To put it baldly, the top b-schools want to admit folks who they believe will be successes in the business world when they graduate. In that sense, it’s much more real-world oriented. So if she’s picking up skills that will help her succeed in her career, that’s much more important than what her GPA is.</p>
<p>BTW, @DrGoogle, when it comes to law schools, I’ve heard that the LSAT is more important than GPA now because grade inflation is so rampant so high GPAs are easy to find and admit, but a high LSAT score is still fairly scarce simply due to the design of the scoring system. Plus, in the USNews law school rankings (which drive law school behavior to possibly an even great extent than the USNews undergrad rankings drive undergrad admissions),
- Median LSAT is weighed more heavily than median GPA.
- Medians are what are looked at. So even if you have a shoddy GPA, from a purely rankings perspective, to a T15 law school (who all have median GPA’s of entering students of 3.7 or higher), a 2.8 GPA but 173 LSAT (99th percentile and at or above the median LSAT for all T15 law schools) is worth more than a 3.6 GPA but 166 LSAT (93rd percentile and below the median LSAT for all T15 law schools).
<a href=“http://lawschooli.com/gpa-medians-law-schools-2015/”>http://lawschooli.com/gpa-medians-law-schools-2015/</a>
<a href=“LSAT Percentiles Table - Cambridge LSAT”>http://www.cambridgelsat.com/resources/data/lsat-percentiles-table/</a></p>
<p>With med schools, my understanding is that med schools still want all applicants to do well in their basic science pre-med classes regardless of their major. Even though people seem to only bandy about overall GPA, the science GPA is just as important (and probably more so for the non-STEM majors).</p>
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<p>I think Physics is every bit as hard.</p>
<p>Yes but engineering major combines both physics, math, and chemistry for almost 2 years.</p>
<p>A lot of STEM fields are hard. Which one is hardest really depends on your talent.</p>
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It depends on the person. Some find classes focused on solving interesting problems using quantitative, objective, and logical methods far easier than classes focused on subjective writing without a clear methodology or classes emphasizing rote memorization with little underlying meaning. For example, I have 3 degrees in engineering fields - 1 undergrad and 2 grad. I generally found the many engineering classes I have taken easier than humanities classes I have taken. The first A+ I received in college was in my first engineering class (intro to electrical engineering). </p>
<p>“D is interested in engineering and Computer Science, but also business.”
-CS and Engineering are completely and totally different majors. However, many CS majors include great number of business classes. While Engineering is the hardest major of them all, CS is not hard. OK, what base do I have to say all of that? I am a former engineer, who hated her job (while engineering academics were fine and even interesting, I always love math) and who switched to CS after 11 years of engineering job experience, I simply said, enough is enough. Went back to school and was amazed how easy it was. Do not get me wrong, writing software is the most interesting thing (for me!) in a world, you feel like challenging the stupid machine. Since all of my enployers (9 of them) were paying for education, I went all the way thru MBA, which I did not need, but why not? MBA is even easier than CS undergrad, since it does not go to as much details in the business classes. As you could imagine, I did not have to take a single math class in my CS/MBA career since all were covered by my engineering degree.<br>
But to say that one is interested in Engineering and CS is to admit that one needs a bit more research in the type of academics and jobs for each of these majors.
Another advice is DO NOT PAY FOR YOUR MBA. There is no reason whatsoever, You can attend one of the top MBA programs in the country while working full time and employers are covering the cost. I know many people who are done / doing it, including my H, (engineer) and me, even while raising the family.</p>
<p>@MiamiDAP You make some good points. Thank you.</p>
<p>I am saying that she is interested in Engineering and CS because the college offers CS as part of Engineering with more math and science and engineering requirements or through Arts and Sciences with fewer requirements. She applied to the engineering college. Additionally, she spent last summer in a program learning the basics of electrical engineering and Python. </p>