<p>Been there last year. Yes, it’s just as stressful to a parent, especially since I could only be a sounding board and lurker. The site with the most insight is Grad Cafe.</p>
<p>My wife has an MS in Higher Ed/Student development and still works in the field. I used to work iin the field but have a degree in a different area. A professional graduate degree in this is quite a bit different than going for a PhD in a more research oriented field. His past work experience will be just as important, if not more important, than his undergraduate classes and research.</p>
<p>By far, the most important thing for him, will be to secure a Grad Assistant position that provides work experience in the future work areas he is considering…admissions, financial aid, student life, advising, orientation, etc. Without this assistantship, it will be much more difficult to secure future full - time jobs. Assistantships also provide a small salary and either full or partial tuition payment.</p>
<p>Just as important, he should also check the placement record for past MS Ed grads at the schools he is considering.</p>
<p>DS does have an advisor he’s been working closely with. He did tell me she was disappointed he wasn’t applying to her alma mater where she felt he had a really good chance of acceptance. I hope she didn’t let his decision not to apply there taint their student/advisor relationship, but he says he doesn’t believe it did. After visiting there he didn’t feel it would be a good fit for him. I told him to go with his gut, and not waste his time or theirs if it really wasn’t somewhere he wanted to be.</p>
<p>Haystack, with all of the budget cuts in education and state supported universities, how do you and your wife view the future in this field? My son isn’t the type looking to make tons of money, and he really enjoys working with young people. If he doesn’t get into a traditional Master’s program, he’s looking into the Peace Corps or Teach America. He also has a friend teaching in South Africa who wants him to apply there, but I question her motives… LOL</p>
<p>If your son has decent grades and a decent GRE score, he can find a grad school.</p>
<p>I think the future for higher Ed jobs is strong and would still recommend it. The key is getting your ‘foot in the door’. It is very difficult to do without that grad assistantship. He should not waste his time/money on a program that does not give him one ( or at least a significant amount of practicum experience).</p>
<p>The state budget cuts have not effected the higher end schools that tend to hire these professionals as much as you might think. Most have just increased tuition to compensate for the reduction in state funding. No positions have been eliminated at my state flagship.</p>
<p>“Given all this, she feels her chances of getting straight into grad school are slim. Mind boggling to me.”</p>
<p>And in some fields, it might be. The vast majority of Ph.D. students in my d’s program had masters degrees before applying, and then had to start again. (She had top - as in perfect - GRE scores, top grades, heavy research experience, but it turned out that it was particular language fluency - and it isn’t a language Ph.D. - which was needed by the faculty chair in THAT ONE YEAR that made the difference. With all she had, it is likely she would have been rejected the previous year, and the following one (though she did get into other, lower ranked, programs.) I think she was the only one accepted directly from undergrad that year, despite several dozen Ivy and other applicants from highly ranked schools.</p>
<p>^^^^Wow. I guess I’d better believe my D. She often worries about doing poorly, predicts less than great results, but always pulls it off in the end, so I wasn’t sure how accurate her statements were.</p>
<p>I guess I’d better start preparing a good pep talk to pull out of my pocket if it doesn’t go well.:)</p>
<p>Or at least the professor for whom he is doing the research…the person who will be vouching for his research interests and capabilities.</p>
<p>I am amazed that a majority of Ph.D students in mini’s D’s field already have masters degrees (which don’t shorten the Ph.D time). That is different from the days when H was applying to grad school. </p>
<p>So often, masters degrees are not funded like Ph.D programs…I’m thinking about the thread about the person who spent $50K for a masters and it didn’t really get her a better job than if she had just had a BA…</p>
<p>GA funding opportunities…note that this field is different than most academic programs in that the GA funding comes from admin departments within the university in areas like res life, orientation, student life, etc rather than from the academic department. It is really important that your son gets one of these GA positions.</p>
<p>I really think it depends on the field. My son (who’s taking a year away from formal education after he graduates in June from the U. of Chicago, and plans at present to apply to Art History Ph.D. programs in the fall) has been getting a great deal of information from talking to the Art History faculty at his school – he’s always been the type of kid who makes friends with teachers, and college has been no different – and, from what he tells me, the process of deciding where to apply and so on bears little or no resemblance to the college application process. I don’t think I could ever learn as much as he already knows! From what he tells me, it all really depends not only on the general reputation of the department, but, at least as much, on how well people who go there do on getting good jobs, and, of course, on which departments have faculty in the specific area he’s interested in pursuing. (For example, the U. of Rochester has a great program he’s very interested in, with a number of faculty members specializing in his area, so it’s one of his top choices.) Whether it’s true or not, he’s been told that the dropout rate from Ph.D. programs is much greater for people who go straight from college to grad school than it is for people who take some time away to make sure that grad school is what they really want to do, which is one of the reasons he’s taking a year away. (A friend of mine who’s a CUNY professor has noticed the same thing.) </p>
<p>He’s also been told that he shouldn’t go anywhere that doesn’t pay all his tuition, give him a stipend, etc., so he doesn’t have to pay or borrow a penny (a good thing, because there’s little or no parental or grandparental money left to pay for grad school!). And that in his field, getting a master’s degree first is a waste of time – not to mention that he’d undoubtedly have to pay tuition for that; nobody picks up tuition for master’s degree students. He’s also been advised that it doesn’t really matter how he does on the math part of the GRE (he plans to take the GRE this summer), and that his recommendations and his GPA, particularly in his major, will be far more important. The fact that he goes where he goes won’t hurt at all, either. All of this advice, of course, may be completely inapplicable to other fields.</p>
<p>Actually, I think that advice probably holds across most non-science PhD fields, except that for many programs it’s the verbal GRE that doesn’t matter. (Note, however, that lots of universities have university-wide minimums for GREs, so your “irrelevant” score CAN matter crucially if it’s too low.)</p>
<p>The dropout rate from non-science academic PhD programs is pretty high, whether or not people took time away, but it’s enormous for people who go straight from college. To figure out why, all you have to do is read one of the many “Don’t Get a PhD” screeds now in circulation. It’s no wonder that people that smart develop other options, and take them, and that it happens more frequently to people who start their programs without any real sense of what their alternatives were.</p>
<p>Yes, I think he realizes that “doesn’t matter” means “doesn’t matter so long as it’s at least somewhat respectable for a humanities major.” If he can manage to get a math score anywhere close to what he got on his math SAT (high 600’s) I’m sure he’ll be fine.</p>
<p>DonnaL, DS will more than likely go to the Peace Corps if he doesn’t get into a traditional grad school. My alma mater offers this program he is considering, this one of two or three different programs in the same vein</p>
<p>This is sort of a plan B for him. My personal fear is that if he takes time off he won’t go back, and his undergrad degree isn’t valuable without a masters or higher (BS in Cultural Anthro with a minor in Women’s Studies). When he chose that major, we (his Dad, step-mom and step-dad) all talked to him to help him understand he would need to pursue education further than the undergrad level. We’ve all reiterated it over the course of his undergrad career. I may have the bigger issue if he doesn’t go straight into a masters program. I’ll worry about him supporting himself.</p>
<p>I have a friend whose son spent $85k on an undergrad degree in Geography (OOS at University of Kentucky, not sure if he went the BS or BA route) intending to go on to great things, but decided he’s tired of going to school and is now back living at home looking for work. He graduated in the spring and is working as a personal trainer at a local gym. My friend is totally freaking out about his future plans. His original plans were to go all the way to the PhD level.</p>
<p>By the way, I texted DS some info from Haystack earlier and he responded with, “Someone has been googling…” LOL</p>
<p>HurricaneMom, my son is applying for various jobs and internships for next year, related to his field, at museums and other cultural institutions in New York City. His plan, of course, is to live at home for that year while applying to grad school – splitting time between me and my former spouse – thereby avoiding having to pay rent (which wouldn’t be easy for him to manage in New York City even if he ends up with a position that pays something, which he’s not expecting.)</p>
<p>So it’ll be kind of like high school, except that I won’t be able to ask him where he’s going, or tell him when to come home, or remind him to put on his hat and mittens and tie his shoes, etc.! Nor do his parents get to decide his “parenting” schedule anymore; those days are long over.</p>
<p>I’m not really concerned about his future, though; my son is pretty driven academically, and I don’t think he’s the type to spend the next 20 years on the sofa watching television with me.</p>
<p>For PhDs, it is very important to talk to someone in the faculty of your current school who knows the specific area you are interested in. Not only can they make everything so much easier by guiding you through the process, reading essays, writing recommendations and informally putting in a good word for you, etc, they also often have insider knowledge about the faculty at different schools and can tell you things like: who is planning to go on extended maternity leave, who is planning to retire, who is being headhunted by a different college, who has become a raging alcoholic, who is known for stealing the work of their grad students, etc, etc, so that if you do get accepted, you don’t end up in a bad situation down the line, unsupported and wishing you had never been accepted and ultimately dropping out.</p>
<p>I was also told that you shouldn’t go anywhere you would have to pay or take out a loan (my field is Political Science). Depending on the specialism, some people do get a Master’s degree before starting a PhD, sometimes because they were undecided about doing a PhD or didn’t get any funding, sometimes to get experience with a particular field or language, sometimes just because that is what you do for that specialism, but I will get a Master’s as part of my PhD studies, so it didn’t seem worthwhile to do a separate one.</p>
<p>It is a bit worrying to hear about the increased likelihood that you will drop out if you go straight on to a PhD…</p>
<p>Patently false, DonnaL. We mothers are allowed to remind our children to put on their hats and mittens until they lower us into the grave, and they know that. That was in the contract they signed when they picked their parents! :D</p>
<p>LOL ^^ So true. DS rolled his eyes at me as he was leaving to drive the 11 hours back to school, I told him, “No texting and driving.” </p>
<p>Good luck to your son Donna! My son was fortunate that his internships were at another university that not only paid a stipend but provided dorm housing and meals in NYC. The only thing they didn’t pay was traveling expenses (to and from NYC or while in the city).</p>
<p>I think this is being interpreted the wrong way. It isn’t ‘starting over’ at all. With a few exceptions of course, the whole point of getting a PhD is to have an academic career. That academic career- the publications, the academic maturity, the ability to build up a cv and be hired to do independent research- starts the minute you embark on a graduate degree. It has really nothing to do with how many courses you take, or how many years you count, and everything to do with research experience and ability and really, what your cv looks like at the end of the day (in terms of publications- NO ONE cares about your coursework or grades when it comes to finding a job). </p>
<p>For some students, or for some schools, or for some fields, it means getting a Masters then a PhD. For others, it’s straight to a PhD then a job. For many fields it’s a masters, PhD AND post-doc. By both individual abilities, training and the nature of one’s field, ‘what it takes’ can’t be simply measured by course work or years or degrees so the idea of ‘starting over’ is really misleading. As an aside, I took a foundational course THREE TIMES- undergrad, masters, PhD- and each time I learned something substantially different (and I still credit it to much of my success in other areas upon which that foundation was critical). </p>
<p>In my field, it is now rare to go straight into a PhD from undergrad. Of course there is higher drop out for any program taking students from undergrad but it is simply because one might not be as prepared or know they love it enough at the undergrad level. But one student might spend 5 years doing a PhD, and another, if they can afford it, will be encouraged to take 7 years so that they build up their cv and academic maturity. Some will do a post-doc, some will do many. Pushing too fast on the time dimension, without pushing mostly on the “get publications done” won’t be in the student’s interest at all. If you skip your masters, and pull off a PhD in four years…meaningless if you dont’ have a strong enough set of publications to get an academic position.</p>
<p>Yes, and another feature of the time line, at least in some fields, is that neither you nor your institution wants you to have a degree and no job. So people will go into loooooong holding patterns when their dissertations are complete, or essentially so, while they look for a job, understanding that they shouldn’t defend their theses and get the doctorate conferred until they have an appropriate job lined up.</p>
<p>^exactly. In my field, where jobs are not so much an issue, I know people will also hold back even though they can get a job, just to build their cv…better to get more developed and more pubs before ones tenure clock starts ticking. Once you take a job, the time goes very fast before the tenure decision and it’s stressful.</p>
<p>A loved one is going through the med school process. His folks had to help him with his essays–he has sterling credentials but isn’t much of a writer. He’s been going to interviews & has more scheduled. He was fortunate to have some while he’s been home for the holidays as well. We’re keeping our fingers crossed but should do great. Glad he let his folks help him–I would have no clue on how to be helpful as my kids have never let us help (they they help one another & let friends help).</p>