Grad School Changes @ Stanford, MIT, Berkeley?

Graduate School
1

<p>I'm graduating in 2010, and I am thinking about graduate school now. Frankly, if I do not get into one of those 3 schools with full scholarship, I do not want to go to grad school. Maybe it's a prestige thing, but my mind is pretty much set on that.</p>

<p>So now to plan my time accordingly, I'm curious to know what my chances are in getting into one of those three. My info:</p>

<ul>
<li>Currently doing computer engineering (software) bachelor's at the University of British Columbia (Canada)</li>
<li>Received scholarships from the university each year for having marks within the top 5% of the faculty (I do not know where I am within that 5%)</li>
<li>(We have no GPA system in Canada)</li>
<li>~20 months of full-time software developer job experience, 4 of which was an internship at Microsoft</li>
<li>Published a paper as primary author in a conference, for a research project that grew out of a term project</li>
<li>Worked as a part-time contractor web developer for a few years on and off in high school</li>
<li>Went through gifted education program for high school and skipped 3 grades</li>
<li>Has great references</li>
</ul>

<p>What are my chances of getting into Stanford, MIT, or Berkeley as a Masters engineering student? What do I need to do to up my chances? Besides doing well on GRE, of course.</p>

<p>I'm less inclined towards PhD due to its length, and I'm really there just for the thrill and to see if I could do it.</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

2

<p>“I’m really there just for the thrill and to see if I could do it.” I think you need to really think about this statement more so than all of your stats and such. Also, aren’t full-scholarships much rarer for Masters degree programs than Bachelor’s? Besides, if you’re looking for the ultimate thrill and challenge (emphasis on challege), why not go for the Ph.D where you don’t have to pay to go?</p>

3

<p>you sound like a d-bag</p>

4

<p>LOL maybe you should reconsider this…</p>

5

<p>Graduating in 2010 with 3 grades skipped makes you what… 14 or 15 years old? If you graduate with a BS in 4 years, you’ll be 19? I doubt grad schools would admit someone that young, much less with full scholarship. Your motivation for grad school shows you are not mature enough to succeed in that kind of setting. Hopefully as you grow older your motivations (or plans) will change.</p>

<p>Good luck with whatever you do.</p>

6

<p>you are smart and you have good stats. You should stay in industry because it doesn’t seem like you enjoy doing research. Also be warned that you will get no funding for pursuing a masters at the schools you listed. You will be facing $30k tuition and $20k living expenses each year for two years. Beside, Berkeley & MIT admit students with intention to go to PhD. If you don’t have this intention, I’m afraid you are left with Stanford, which is notoriously hard to get admissions. (Btw, a degree from UBC is very good for finding jobs in Canada and probably also in US)</p>

7

<p>Have you ever seen The Office? In my mind, you would make a good Dwight…</p>

<p>Seriously though, I think the other posters have hit the mark. 1) You come across as a complete idiot, 2) Judging from your post alone, you have almost no chance of getting into these programs with full funding (don’t you generally pay for a masters?), 3) You could stand to take a few courses in improving your social skills. Yes this is the internet, so maybe you are really different in person. If so, that would be great.</p>

<p>You sound like a smart enough guy, but I don’t think your parents did you any favors by skipping you ahead 3 grades. If you want real advice, get research experience. Get more research experience. And get good letters or recommendation. In the Ph.D. these are the critical components of an application and I think it is probably the same for the Masters. Basically, find the area of C.S. you want to study in graduate school and get involved in it as soon as you can.</p>

<p>I’m sorry for being mean and I truly believe it’s not entirely your fault that you come across as a jerk. But at the same time, you need a little more self-awareness. Hope this helps.</p>

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<p>I’m pretty sure he’s fake. This is his first post. And if he’s 15, I doubt he’s allowed by his parents/dorm RA to use the internet</p>

9

<p>

</p>

<p>Are you saying Masters is harder to get into, and PhD is harder to finish? Then I think in my case, Masters sounds more tailored to my need. Surely I can’t be the only person in the world who wants to go into a Masters program for the sake of it.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I am a d-bag.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>In Canada, most people enter university at 19. Your calculations are a bit off. What is your reason that makes you say grad schools not taking young students?</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Perfect.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>So nobody gets funding for these Masters’ programs? Somebody must have. What’s their secret?</p>

<p>It seems like there’s more to it than “get research experience” as advice. Why? I’ve obviously thought about it, and I’m not opposed to it. My reason for not having that as my preferred choice is because research seems way too much of a risky investment. 20 years of it is spent with low (at least not high) pay, begging for funding, only to get tenure which still doesn’t pay much. Sure the place in society is pretty good, but I’ve seen how some of my classmates treat professors.</p>

10

<p>MTsoul, I suggest you get some industry experience for a year or two after your bachelors degree. At that time, you will be wiser to make decisions. You will also know if research is right for you. If what you like is software development, you do not need a PhD to do that, a masters is sufficient. But be prepared to fund your study (hopefully not too much debt since your industry experience would pay for part of the costs). I suggest while you are at school get the GRE and subject test done. </p>

<p>If you’re looking for money, industry is better. But if you are looking for satisfaction, research is better.</p>

11

<p>Welcome to cc bashing lol :wink: anyways</p>

<p>Univ funding for a masters is near impossible these days as a lot the stipend money go to the phd candidates. For a masters (particularly for cs) , the more time/cost efficient way is to work in the industry for a few years and get the company (preferably large) to pay for your education.</p>

12

<p>" Originally Posted by tx2000
you sound like a d-bag</p>

<p>I am a d-bag."</p>

<p>Handled like a champ. For the record, when I read your first post, I thought you were a ******bag too.</p>

<p>If you don’t have some sort of obsessive committment to research, you may not make it through grad school. Also, if you impose silly requirements about which schools would be acceptable to you and how much they would have to pay you, you won’t be happy with the results. Take some time to work in industry and if grad school is right for you then, consider it then.</p>

13

<p>Okay so you guys are all recommending working first. I don’t mind that either, and have thought about it. My concern is that my chances of getting into grad school (if I do choose to do so later on) would be much lower after 2 years of working, because:</p>

<ul>
<li>my academic contacts/references will not be as close</li>
<li>my undergraduate marks will seem less significant since I may (and probably will) forget things, as seen by Stanford, et al.</li>
<li>I will actually be worse off when it comes down to an interview. I will be less energetic and naive.</li>
</ul>

<p>I guess it makes sense to work for a few years to “cool down” and get some sense into my head. After all, 16 consecutive years of schooling must do some damage to the mind. But I just feel like I’m not finished here, and if I don’t do this now, I won’t have the chance later. And if I don’t get into a Master’s program of my choice, all the better - the journey would have ended and I would stop here.</p>

<p>But until then, I still need to figure out how to maximize my chance into a Master’s program. (Regret does not fade easily.) Are there some statistics regarding Masters programs in these (or related) schools? How many apply, how many get in, how many get funded by how much, average scores, etc? Any additional things I should do while I have the time? Like working in a summer research lab with a professor at my current university?</p>

14

<p>Those schools you mentioned all admit MS (masters) level students in engineering and are all somewhat selective (though far less selective than Phd), and admission isn’t entirely unreasonable. There’s no harm in applying to see if you get in.</p>

<p>Very certainly there will be no scholarship money though. Most universities have limited money and tend to fund fellowships for PhD students only, especially top-tier ones that you are looking at.</p>

15

<p>MTsoul, I find your post totally absurd.</p>

<p>First of all, Canada does have a GPA system–usually the same as that of the states in most Canadian schools. I would know as I got to UofT.</p>

<p>Skipping 3 grades aint relevant. If anything, maturity comes with age even if intelligence came quickly. Your age may be seen as an issue.</p>

<p>People do a PhD because they have a passion for research in that field, not for some thrill or to prove something.</p>

<p>Your total inability to consider other schools shows you are grotesquely naive about how grad school works.</p>

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<p>Someone said the Masters is more competitive, well that’s not true for Stanford: [Stanford</a> Computer Science Department](<a href=“http://cs.stanford.edu/degrees/mscs/faq/index.php?sid=103056&lang=en&action=artikel&cat=4&id=58&artlang=en]Stanford”>http://cs.stanford.edu/degrees/mscs/faq/index.php?sid=103056&lang=en&action=artikel&cat=4&id=58&artlang=en)</p>

<p>Stanford does not publish any admissions data. </p>

<p>Here is some info on Berkeley: [Competition</a> for Admission | EECS at UC Berkeley](<a href=“http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Gradadm/Competition.htm]Competition”>http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Gradadm/Competition.htm)</p>

<p>Use Google (cmon, compsci lol) to find out about specific programs. Also, do not hesitate to contact the departments, ask them what your chances are.</p>

<p>Also take the compsci GRE subject exam as in US programs you need to and I don’t think Canadian universities require it. You need to score a 90%+ on this thing to get into the top 10 programs usually.</p>

<p>I think you guys are being really tough on the kid, you have to remember he’s 14/15. </p>

<p>Anyway for some real advice and some misconceptions about what people said in this post:
0) He never said he was trying to do a PhD, any PhD critiques are irrelevant. He said specifically he wanted to do a masters.</p>

<p>1) Someone said before that grad schools would be hesitant to admit him for a Masters. Looking at his profile, I think he has an OK chance at a masters at his age. Let’s not act like compsci, math or physics grad school does not admit extremely talented young people. Some of the Fields Medalist got their PhDs when they were 23 or 24. It’s not unheard of. </p>

<p>Stop acting like grad schools give a ***** about you as a person, they don’t! They only care if you are a talented, hard working student. </p>

<p>2) In the year or so you have remaining, do whatever you can to make those letters even better. Show a tenacity for problem solving, always try to take on more work if possible. And if possible, try to take on a new research project with one of your current recommenders.</p>

<p>However since you said you want a Masters and not a PhD, maybe you should focus on taking a lot more advanced coursework. </p>

<p>Do you plan on doing a Masters degree with a thesis or just taking advanced courses?</p>

<p>3) While your grades, work/research exp is impressive, I have to admit, you have to evaluate why you want a masters. I’ll tell you that if you wrote what you wrote in your first post in a statement of purpose, you do not come off well. You come off as trying to portray yourself as a boy genius and this is a big no-no. Having an impressive profile means nothing, all of the students applying to Stanford, MIT, Berkeley have amazing profiles. You need to set yourself apart in terms of dedication and stressing that you love solving compsci problems. </p>

<p>While I said grad schools are not hesitant to admit qualified younger students, they won’t do it if you come off as “I’ll just do it for the challenge.” That is immature to be honest. </p>

<p>I’m not trying to trash you, I’m sure you really do enjoy compsci, so make sure you come across as genuinely in love with compsci and try not to emphasize skipping 3 grades. They will know you skipped grades when they see your application. </p>

<p>Overall, your statement of purpose should not even mention that stuff. It should talk about what problems you have worked on in compsci, what particular areas interest you and why and not your life story. That is kryptonite.</p>

<p>4) On funding, look, it’s hard to get funding for Masters when the school has a PhD program. All that money goes to funding PhD students. Especially at the top schools. And since you are from Canada, you will be paying a ton of cash to do a masters at these schools. You are easily looking at 80k+ debt for tuition and living expenses, probably more living around MIT, or Stanford/Berkeley.</p>

<p>I would urge you to evaluate why you don’t want a PhD. Nobody is going to fund an international masters student at a top 5 uni.</p>

<p>5) For the last point, I REALLLY urge you to not jump directly to graduate school. This is more of life advice than academic advice. Take a year or two off, and get some work experience but more importantly, life experience. Since you skipped 3 grades, it’s probably difficult to find people you can relate to. You are ahead, so there is no need to rush. Get some work experience, work on some interesting compsci projects, this might actually help your Masters application, and it might get the company to pay for your Masters. </p>

<p>If you are worried about your recommendations from your professors being stale, ask them with about 1-2 months before you graduate to write your letters and ask them to save a copy of it when you do apply to grad school. Of course, make sure you keep in touch with them. This way the recommendation is written when they still remember you and your abilities.</p>

<p>I really think it’s a bad idea if you rush into a Masters. See what else is out there in the world, you are so young. Explore a little bit, try new things and fail at it, it really is good for you and your psyche. Also, try to meet people outside of compsci.</p>

<p>OK, best of luck young fella</p>

17

<p>You can say in your personal statement you want to do a master just for the challenge. You are still young and admission committees understand that and they even say a few cases like you every year at these schools.
Seeking challenges in a fundamental to success in life. .
It is great that you are applying to great schools. Go there and they will take good care of you.
If you like school go to school, especially at this age, you can always go to the big school of life any time later.
You are really smart but do not brag a lot. People do not like it.
Be confident and keep the good work.</p>

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<p>he’s not 14/15. he’s graduating from his undergrad in 2010, which means he’d be 18 or 19. putting him at 17/18 now. still quite young for a masters program. and UBC does not have a GPA system (to the poster that went to U of T). they do percentages and letter grades, and the letter grades don’t convert directly to the US GPA scale. for example, a professor teaching in the states will give a certain paper of average quality an A or A- (which is either in the 80% range or the 90% range, depending on the school’s scale). that same paper given to the same professor at a canadian school would get a B (around 75%). so yes. what would get a 90% or an 85% at some american schools will get you 75% at a canadian one. just a different grading system. this is coming from a number of professors who went to school in the states and have taught in the US and canada for a number of years. even taking the poster’s current average and converting it wouldn’t be a true reflection of his GPA in comparison to american counterparts. that’s why most universities worth their salt employ international grades specialists who convert other countries’ grades to GPAs.</p>

<p>anyway… if you’re looking for full funding for a masters for any of these programs, you’re not going to get it. no one gets it. even the boy geniuses. the money is not there at the MS level for these three schools. you have options. you can go for a PhD, where you will get funded. you can look at programs other than these three, where you might get funded. or you can look for external funding sources or loans. although it is extremely disingenuous and generally considered bad form, you could apply for a PhD, get your masters in the mail after two years in the program, and then drop out. you’ll still leave with the masters and it won’t have cost you a dime. you’ll have a hard time getting letters of recommendation from the profs in your PhD program, though.</p>

<p>and i’m going to stress something others have mentioned: don’t say you’re doing a masters “just for the challenge,” and don’t make your statement of purpose at all about your life story. that is irrelevant. you are competing for spots with people who have backgrounds just as impressive as yours, or more impressive than yours. sell your ideas and your dedication (even if you have to fake it), not your “i want to go to the toughest school possible because i’m up for the challenge!” that is very high school. at best, they won’t care, and at worst, they’ll hate you for it much in the way half the people in this thread do.</p>

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<p>How does he sound like a d-bag? Self assured: Yes. D-Bag: No. Good luck in whatever you choose MTSoul.</p>

<p>I cannot speak to your chances of getting into any of these schools; just do what you can do and see what happens.</p>

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<p>Schools: Make sure that you know what you want to study SPECIFICALLY before applying to any school - there are few things that the 3 named schools all do, and asking to enter to study area X does not help if the school does not offer area X, and the BEST places for area X may not be in those schools. You may find that in your area of interest other schools carry more weight.</p>

<p>Class Rank: For the schools listed, all but the barest handful of those admitted are in the top 5% or better. This is not a distinction.</p>

<p>GPA: Figure it out. Nearly all US schools (including those 3) do a GPA conversion, so figure out how to convert yours to a 4.0 scale and see how competitive you are.</p>

<p>High School: Unless it was a college-level publication, nothing you did before college matters in grad apps.</p>

<p>Masters: MIT offers masters only to (1) failed PhD candidates and (2) MIT undergrads. I believe Berk is the same. Stanford offers masters, and it is less competitive than PhD admissions. Regardless, funding for masters programs is almost non-existent. PhD students contribute through teaching and research, the reason they are paid, but as a rule masters students consume more than they contribute. If you want the Stanford masters, get some big big loans.</p>

<p>Thrill: I would keep this to yourself, and would limit yourself to getting admitted. DON’T GO TO GRAD SCHOOL FOR THE THRILL!!! It’s like getting shot just so you can show off the scar - really really not worth it. You’ve got to love research in your field to succeed,
and if you do not seem to love it they will not admit you - they know what it takes.</p>

<p>Time off: Don’t worry about taking a few years break. Grad programs assume that you will have forgotten some stuff, and that due to differences in undergrad programs you may have never learned some stuff at all. The only real risk is losing those academic habits.</p>

<p>Research: 50-80% of PhD grads in the sciences and engineering go to do research in industry. Less freedom, better cash. PhD’s at my company come in around $100k and up right off the bat.</p>

<p>Good Luck.</p>