Grad school is more important than undergrad.

Test Preparation
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<p>All right, some of you CC people might blast me for this, but here I go: guys, calm down, undergrad is not as important as grad. If you go to Harvard for your undergrad and got some tiny, crappy school for your master's and doctorate's, you're career is not going to be hot. On the other hand, if you go to some unknown undergrad program and go to say, Princeton for your doctorate's you're gonna be one helluva wanted employee.</p>

<p>Now some of you may have the argument that you HAVE to go to an awesome school for undergrad to get into an awesome grad school. Aren't you forgetting something else, like the GRE? It's basically the SAT/ACT for undergrads. We've all seen bright kids come from crappy high schools and go to a great undergrad college.</p>

<p>Don't get me wrong now, if you can get into princeton for your bachelor's, Harvard for your master's, and Johns Hopkins for your medical degree, kudos to you, you're gonna have employers bribing you to join them.</p>

<p>I understand all of your positions in stressing over a 2200 on the SAT or a few B's on your transcript. In fact, I am a fairly elite student myself who comes from a traditional Chinese family who stresses education (especially when considering that both of my parents went to college in China at a time when only the top 2% could hope in getting into any college).</p>

<p>One more thing, where you got a degree matters less than how you apply yourself in the workforce. When my dad came here, he applied for a job in the National Cancer Institute, and told his employers that he had a bachelor's from University of Shanghai, and a master's and doctorate's from Shanghai Institute of Science. His employers had no idea whether his schools were crappy, mediocre, decent, or top of the line, so they stick him in a fairly low position (associate scientist). However, his performance was so good that in 6 years (today), he is now the program director of the biopharmaceutical department.</p>

<p>Think about that for a while.</p>

<p>Now, here comes the agreement from people who concur with me, and the cursing from the people who are ready to commit suicide because they only got a 2390. Unless of course, no one replies to this thread, lol.</p>

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<p>I agree. I don't think Harvard for undergrad is as good as other schools, anyway. I've been saying it over and over, no one cares where you went to undergrad.</p>

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<p>AsianWazoo, I surely do agree with every point you made. </p>

<p>I myself come from a small school that not a lot of people have heard of. To put working hard into perspective it does indeed pay off, regardless of where you are from. I have earned myself the opportunity to be a part of vital research right now at Stanford Medical School, and will be working on a project with a professor from The University of Chicago School of Medicine next fall. Though this isn't the same as grad school, but the concept is similar to lesser scale. Getting research at these kinda places isn't easy. (I also got offers from WashU school of Medicine and UT MD Anderson Cancer center, the top cancer institute in the world). It is the person that matters, not the name. I guess this is kind of ironic to say, because I am planning applying as a transfer to Columbia or Stanford to finish my undergrad degree, but for reasons much different than the name of the school (location relative to industry etc). I guess the bottom line is, getting into a good Grad school is all that matters. There are several paths that can get you there, and Harvard, Yale, and Princeton don't guarantee anything.</p>

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<p>Random comment: Oh, btw, for all of you who wonder exactly how the many positions in my dad's work goes, here it is:</p>

<p>Chairman of Scientific Operations
Member of the Office of Scientific Operations
Program Director
Associate Director
Laboratory Chief
Principal Investigator
Staff Scientist
Associate Scientist
Postdoc
Engineer, Lab technician
Postbac
Undergraduate Intern
Student Intern (that's me! At the bottom of the ladder!)</p>

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<p>do you know if your dad (or the PI's beneath him) need an undergraduate intern? I am thinking about taking some time off from school, and am interested in doing cancer research. NCI would be a great place to go.</p>

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<p>I always thought the truly smart kids went to state school for free (merit scholarships). Although it may not seem to be a prestigious undergraduate institution, you won't be struggling to pay off loans years down the line. You are correct in identifying that your grad. school/professional/medical school name matters more because employers look at your highest level of education.</p>

<p>I feel the overall contributing factor to success in the business world is not the college one goes to, but one's work ethic. Both my parents went to state schools for both undergrad and grad. My dad even turned down a fellowship offer from MIT and chose university of illinois because it had a top-notch civil engineering program and was so much less expensive. He worked dilligently and was just recently offered to be chief civil engineer of the "Big Dig" project in Boston. In conclusion, ppl on CC need to be less concerned with scores and moreso with living life.</p>

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<p>was that listing really necessary....?</p>

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<p>i agree but here's some of my point:
First of all, it's unlikely that someone who went to Harvard undergrad will go to some crappy tiny school for PhD (sure, some might, but most of them will be going to big name schools again).
Second, if someone's looking for a job right after graduation from undergrad college, it's good to have big name in diploma.</p>

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<p>I disagree. Undergrad experiences are much different than grad experiences. Most ppl go to grad schools to advance their careers in a professional/research field. A lot of people who aspire to go to Harvard undergrad don't want to go because it will get them into good grad school. It's because of the experience. Those 4 years they are in a community with other very bright people, and the activities/social/academics/etc. are life-changing. </p>

<p>Undergrad and grad schools should not be compared. Undergrad experiences can be life-changing and change your views on life,etc. while grad schools are more focused on your career.</p>

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<p>i agree that grad is more consequential in terms of where you'll get a job.</p>

<p>twenty years ago, having a college education was a huge benefit. today, it's nothing more than a check in the box. how long will it be until the same thing happens with grad school?</p>

<p>what's going to separate the scholars from the students will be who went to which grad school.</p>

<p>furthermore, of course, it's possible to go to a renowned grad school from a mediocre college. in fact, undergrad is almost like a second chance for people who didn't do as well as they wanted to in high school.</p>

<p>but don't get carried away with that thought. that doesn't mean high school is meaningless. it will still be easier to get into johns hopkins med from yale than, say, harvard. just kidding. well, some huge state university.</p>

<p>the point is: UNDERGRAD IS NOT THE END! we get to experience the same procedure - from preparing for the GRE to researching different schools to applications - all over again! and at that time, we'll also be juggling a tougher workload, peer pressure, hangovers, independent living, internships, jobs, study abroad programs, and nagging parents who want you to come home every weekend! yay!</p>

<p>so don't fret. this is just the PSAT (or PLAN for you shady people... just kidding) of our careers :D</p>

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<p>ok there are people who go to great grad from crappy undergrad. but thats not the average joe at these colleges.. its caus grad schools like to diversify, just like undergrad schools. what makes good undergrads good? because they teach you more in life so you come out knowing more from harvard than u will from wutever second tier college.. i never said undergrad is the end.. but whats wrong in giving yourself more opportunities and not playing catch up.. but letting ppl play catch up to u. </p>

<p>bill gates would not have been rich if he went to some other college. granted he dropped out of harvard, because he knew that his opportunity was now or never, but he granted a lot of credit to his beginning undergrad experience at harvard because he opened his eyes to many things plus i think he could make a lot more contacts down the road.</p>

<p>undergrads are not the end but its very easy to see in the jobforce. For example, I live in Northern VA and the top companies take studnets from IVYs, good schools, and especially recruit heavily from UVA/VTech. They might take a kid or two from VCU/JMU and maybe a few from GMU but going to UVA/VTech in this area gives you a much better chance of landing a job where ppl give you responsibilities caus they know you can handle it.l If you come out of JMU, the recruiters might hire you, but you'll have a much tougher time getting respect in the company and you'll find that not just your merit alone will get you promotions/good grad school.</p>

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<p>I mean, isn't this whole thing sort of a big, "Duh!!" </p>

<p>Undergrad is not meaningless -- nobody would say, "Oh yeah... obviously this 4.0 guy from some No Name College in the middle of Nowhere, Arkansas (no offense) is equivalent to this 4.0 Columbia graduate. However... an achievement is an achievement nonetheless. And if that person who graduated from No Name can show that he is a success DESPITE the fact that he did poorly in high school forcing him to go to college in Nowhere, Arkansas, that he worked hard, was involved, etc. then yeah, he's definitely got a shot, as much as someone who went to Columbia or Brown or Princeton or whatever to go to a kick ass graduate school. But he'll have to work so much harder to prove that he's a worthy candidate. </p>

<p>Second, yeah Bill Gates did go to Harvard, but does he really owe his entire success to Harvard? He may accredit them but that doesn't mean that he is a success because of Harvard, he is a success because that's the person he is. However, there are plenty of successful people who became a success even if they didn't finish graduate school. </p>

<p><em>sigh</em>... if going to an Ivy is the only way to guarantee success, then the majority of us are doomed. That's kind of a scary thought. </p>

<p>Side note: I'd like to point out that there are plenty of Ivy grads who never really did anything after graduation.</p>

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<p>That is a completely unfounded response. Where are the numbers to back up this claim? (granted I leave out numbers in my post, but you get the idea)</p>

<p>While UVA/VATech are pretty much the more prestigous schools in the state, aside from William & Mary; as that one is probably the most prestigous in the state; I fail to see how this correlates to how people are hired up in NOVA. Note that I did not say I don't understand how it could be inferred, just that I don't see how it can be a fact. Other than the fact that UVA and Tech are probably the largest schools in the state, which would probably equate to a higher hiring rate than the other schools.</p>

<p>I know many people who went off to various different schools and have not gone for their masters. Yet these people are now graduating and getting jobs in the fields they desire.</p>

<p>And who ever said grad experience equates to work experience? Most companies would rather have a person with work experience over someone who's got a grad and no experience. Now they may show that they have work ethic due to the amount of time they put into school, depending on what grades they achieved.</p>

<p>Do I believe all colleges are created equal? No, but I do believe most colleges are better for certain fields. Take VCU for instance. Its not the greatest school if you're going into the computer or engineering field, but if you're an art major in the state of VA this is one school you want to look into. Or even their medical side, although I don't know much about that aspect of the school. Tech is more geared towards engineering & CS students; although this was not always true. Tech used to be an Agg school and still is to some extent. UVA, well UVA seems to be the Philosophical school imo. UVA has a separate Law & Medical school; whereas the other colleges lack in those areas imo. So you see it is more or less what occupation/career you plan to go into.</p>

<p>Myself? Well I'm in the process of deciding where to transfer. I've been leaning towards VCU mainly because 1. Its the closest to where I currently live, and 2. Its the cheapest. Although I do have to admit I am skittish when it comes to VCU because the degree I'm striving for is a C.S. degree. Granted the VCU C.S team beat out Harvard or Yale (I can't remember which) at an MS programming tourney last year.</p>

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<p>i plan on doing medicine, and as far as i know there is a nice standardized test (MCAT) that I can strive to do well on which will help my placement into a good medical school regardless of where i did premed.</p>