Grad School Selection and Degree Decisions Phd PsyD MSW in Southern California

Graduate School
1

Hello, My name is Greg and I’m currently a Junior at UC Irvine working towards a BA in Psychology and Social Behavior. I’m an older student, 33 years old and am taking my life in a new direction, inspired by numerous things to do so including that I’m a recovering alcoholic. I’m also going to school at a community college that I transferred from working on a second AA in an Alcohol and Drug Studies program so that I can work as a counselor part time while going to school, and to gain experience. Mental health and substance abuse are the areas that most interest me and I wish to devote a good portion of my work in the future in those arenas. So that’s a little about me and where I am at now, and I could really use some advice, and just some input on my options for the future and how to best be prepared for it.

I’m looking at schools in the Los Angeles/Orange County area where I can pursue a graduate degree, and hopefully for as low a cost as possible. I’m having a hard time settling on what go for in grad school be it a MSW, a PsyD or maybe a PhD. I have no interest in teaching, and I don’t have much experience with research yet but it doesn’t sound like something I want to spend any more time doing than I need to. I will of course research and participate in continuing my education in the future as is needed or for personal interest, but I don’t want a career based around it. The only reason I’m considering a PhD is that UCs are great schools and lower in cost, offer assistance and sometimes a stipend. A PsyD is probably more down my alley, but the only schools that offer those degrees are private and tend to be very costly. Psychology as a subject to study overall has been soo interesting and I love the subject matter, and learning about how to conduct therapy based on various theories and methods is very intriguing to me. So my concern is that I may miss out on some of this if I go for the MSW.

The MSW is offered at more schools that are low cost, like UCs and CSUs, however it’s a slightly different set of skills from what I understand. What I like about the MSW is flexibility in what I can do with it, and that I could work in private practice or a clinical setting as soon as I’m licensed or in California what is known as an LCSW. Originally I was looking at LMFT because I had worked with them at a treatment center I worked at, I really liked the work they did, however I understand that LCSWs are hired for the same thing as being a therapist for clients. I have no interest in working with couples, it’s not why I’m doing all this and it just doesn’t really illicit a sense of purpose for me. So, I like the MSW option, the flexibility, possibly lower cost, and slightly higher incomes that are reported with that degree.

About incomes, this isn’t all about money for me at all, however since I’m an older person who is basically just starting working where I’m earning any kind of substantial income for the first time in his life, I wont have as much time to accrue retirement savings etc that I would have had if I had gotten sober at say 22 years old. So I know that as a licensed psychologist I could make a pretty substantial income in my area of California, and this would put me back into the focus of my education being in psychology.

I’m wondering how hard it is to get into a public grad school in my area for a clinical psychology PsyD or PhD, just what is really expected? It’s one thing what they put on the website for requirements, it’s another what a competitive applicant who gets accepted has going on. Same for the MSW programs, I need to know what I should be doing to be an optimal applicant for these schools so that I can get in. I’d like to be prepared so that I could apply to at least PsyD and MSW programs so that I have as many options at the end as possible.

Are there any private grad schools I should be looking at that you recommend which are affordable for PsyD programs ? I’ve got my eye on a few including Alliant

What do you guys know about the MSW programs at UCLA, CSULB, CSUF, CSULA or PhD programs in clinical psychology at UCLA, UCR, or maybe schools I have not mentioned ?

What do you think you would pursue, the MSW or the PsyD, would you go for a PhD ? I know this one really is up to the individual and we are all different, but just want your opinions on the career outlook and just your thoughts in general about what you consider the best option.

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Clinical psychology is a very competitive field, and unfortunately the UCs in your area are some of the best and most competitive. UCLA is a top 10 psychology department. Neither UC-Riverside nor UC-Irvine have clinical psychology programs; they are 100% research PhDs. The only UCs with clinical psych are UCLA, UC-Berkeley and the joint program at SDSU/UCSD.

If you want to be competitive for PhD programs in clinical psychology, especially at the UCs, here’s what you’d need:

-A high undergrad GPA (I’d say at least around a 3.4+, 3.6+ is better)
-At least 2 years of research experience assisting a professor in their lab (3-4 is better; a lot of people take time after college to get more)
-Excellent letters of recommendation. At least one should be from someone who supervised you in research, and at least one of the others should be someone who taught you in 2 or more classes.
-Some volunteer experience in a clinical setting, like a mental health hospital or a clinic
-A good solid idea of an area of research that you’re interested in, with a well-written statement of purpose that articulates that and discusses which professors you’d like to work with.

TO be perfectly honest none of the three programs at a UC would be a good choice for you; they’re all clinical science programs, which means their focus is on the science/research into clinical psychological issues. Their goal is turning out scholars in the field. They’re all APA-accredited, so you could do clinical work afterwards, but the training and assumption is that you are planning to become a scholar in psychology - and a university professor - after you graduate. You’re going to be expected to do the bare minimum to prepare yourself as a clinician and spend the bulk of your available time doing research in the lab.

On the whole, if you aren’t really interested in research or a research career, I think a PhD will just be irritating to you. You would make more money, but it might not be worth the 6±year tradeoff. I’m also not sure that a PsyD is worth the money - they tend to be expensive and clinical psychologists are well-paid, but not to the level that it makes paying off 4 years’ worth of private university tuition all financed through loans easy.

You can do what you want to do with a master’s in mental health counseling or an MSW.

CSUF has an MS in clinical mental health counseling.

You won’t if you go to a program that prepares you for clinical licensure. You have to go to a program that will make you eligible for LCSW - not all programs have that track, although most do - but they will train you in different therapeutic techniques. And then there’s of course continuing education.

If I knew I wanted to be a therapist/counselor and I had little to no interest in doing research, I would go for the MSW or a master’s in mental health counseling. I would consider doing an at least partially-funded PhD at a scientist-practitioner program - for example, Palo Alto University offers some fellowship support and is more focused on turning out clinicians than researchers. I would only do the PsyD if I had a significant amount of savings and/or was independently wealthy and could afford to pay out of pocket. IF costs all up are $50K a year (a low estimate in California) and you spend four years, that’s $200K worth of debt for a career that pays on average around $72K a year.

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I am soo happy you gave me this detailed and awesome reply!!! just made my day, someone who knows what they are talking about has finally replied on this topic lol. Ok so scrap the PhD and the PsyD. In California we have LCSWs LMFTs and LPCCs. Sticking with the MSW route for the moment with the aim of becoming an LCSW, what do I look for to spot a program that has a clinical track ? Thank you x 1 million :smiley:

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I’ve been looking at California’s requirements according to the BBS, they don’t require a specific track it seems, but require that during the 3200 hours as an ASW you must spend that time accordingly in a variety of different clinical roles, different populations and types of therapy/counseling. As for the degree though they simply say a MSW from an accredited school. I’ve only found a few schools that would be optional for me which focus on mental health, or clinical therapy. That is a bummer because I think having those tracks as my education base will play into me getting internships that allow me to earn hours conducting therapy etc…

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Wow your comment about the specific tracks has changed everything about what I thought was going to happen with grad school lol. It looks like I actually have very limited options.

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I will say that it looks like the rules in CA are different. My home state was Georgia, and I was looking at LCSW licensing requirements there a while ago; there, you do have to go through a special ‘track’ for LCSW and most programs had a ‘clinical social work’ or ‘mental health’ track that prepared you for it. This description from CSU-Fullerton is a good example: http://hhd.fullerton.edu/msw/

The two-year MSW program at the Fullerton campus offers students two direct service specialization options: Child Welfare and Community Mental Health (with specialization options, including Aging: a Multigenerational Perspective). The Child Welfare concentration focuses on services in the child welfare system, such as child protective services, foster care, and adoption assistance. The Community Mental Health concentration prepares students to work with various client populations across the mental health care system, including children, families, adults, and older adults. Courses in the two-year MSW program are offered weekdays only.

The child welfare concentration is most likely structured to train social workers who want to work as caseworkers in CPS, or hospitals, adoption agencies, nonprofits, etc. The community mental health concentration is the one you’re looking for - it focuses on mental health services.

However, it sounds like some generalist programs still prepare you, as the Cal State LA MSW website reveals:

The MSW program is an Advanced Generalist program that prepares professional social workers to work across populations and settings. Part of the second year of the MSW program is devoted to one of three areas of study: Aging and Families (AF), Children Youth Women and Families (CYWF), and Forensic Social Work (FSW, available only in the 2-year program) (/academic/hhs/sw/msw.php)

CSULA does have a (not great - 42%) pass rate for the LCSW exam, which indicates that students are eligible to take the exam even after attending their “advanced generalist” program.

In the LA area it seems like the schools with the best pass rates are UCLA (70%), CSU-Northridge (57%) and CSU-SB (62%). Fullerton’s rate is 50%, and Long Beach’s is 40%.

7

Thanks for your reply! This got me looking into the whole track issue and I feel like I’ve better narrowed down my schools and made a lot of progress, so thank you :smiley: