Grade deflation for premed students

<p>I have heard UNC is a great school with great professors and a nice environment overall. I have also heard that it is very tough to get a high GPA. If one were to do premed at UNC which science / engineering major should one take to avoid serious grade deflation?</p>

<p>My son got a C+ in Chem101 & a B in Bio101. What he’s discovered is in order to keep the grades in a certain range, the professors have a lot of trick questions and questions on material that was barely covered. He’s going to continue to plug away with the premed courses.</p>

<p>SanfordDad, I am pretty sure that must be the case in many top institutions. But is it fair to students? Asking questions on material that is barely covered in class may be a way to weed out less prepared students, but there is something almost unethical about it.</p>

<p>It is what it is. Hopefully medical schools know. My son’s C+ in Chem was actually a pretty good grade when compared to the class average. My sister works in his public school system and told me that Chem wasn’t taught well at his high school so he was a little behind. He will be taking the next level of Chem at a nearby community college this summer to transfer to UNC.</p>

<p>In my daughter’s organic chemistry course, 64% of students got a C or lower. The average grade on one exam was a 42…so the majority of the test was evidently trick questions and material not covered.</p>

<p>Advice:

  1. Major in something besides the sciences and minor in the sciences. One poster’s son majored in philosophy and minored in chemistry and got into med school.
  2. Take as many of your science (and math) classes as possible during the summers at another university.
  3. Try to get into the honors program after your first semester if you aren’t already. Honors science courses give predominantly A’s and B’s…and the spaces always fill up with honors students so you can’t really take them if you’re not part of the program.<br>
  4. Get an account on myedu.com and choose your class by professor. While in my daughter’s session, 36% got a C+ or higher…in another professor’s class, 70% got a C+ or higher.
  5. If you’re not a senior in high school yet, take as many science and math APs as you can and forego the humanity/english APs. The latter will be easier at UNC.</p>

<p>where do you find these kind of stats about the grade distribution?</p>

<p>[Professor</a> ratings, average GPA, class schedule & degree tools | MyEdu](<a href=“http://www.myedu.com%5DProfessor”>http://www.myedu.com)</p>

<p>My son is likely getting a minor in Chem since you are only a couple classes short of a minor in Chem if you satisfy the premed requirements. He also wants to either major or minor in Business in case he doesn’t get into medical school. His current major is History since he only needed like 5 history classes from UNC since he transfered in so many history class credits from the online program through the local community college his high school offered.</p>

<p>I don’t think taking other classes at a University you don’t attend is wise. One reason is because Medical School could possibly see it as you wanted to take it at an easier college. My college actually states that you should not take a class at another college because it would be easier. Only take college at another college for a legit reason and not because it is easier at another college.</p>

<p>A legit reason for a lot of people is that they want to be home for the summer…or that they can’t afford room and board for another semester…who’s to say. No doubt an A in orgo from UNC looks better to med schools than an A in orgo from NC State. However, I think an A from NC State looks better than a C from UNC.</p>

<p>A lot of confusion on here regarding grades. First of all, it looks bad to med schools if you’re taking all your science classes during the summer at easier schools. I get that some people have to, but still. Second of all, the grades from classes you take during summer school at other schools do NOT factor into your UNC GPA, so you’re got getting a boost. Third, you should not be getting Cs in your pre-med classes… I don’t think one C will kill your chances, but a string of lower grades will, especially if they’re impacting your science GPA. You’re going to end up having to retake those classes to get a higher grade.</p>

<p>The science classes do not get any easier as you advance up… so my advice would be to get out while you still can and research other career possibilities. Major in something that you can do well in and minor in a science. For the record, I don’t think my science professors ever tried to screw us with trick questions or test us on material that wasn’t covered… at least, not in the upper level classes. It’s just hard material! I felt like I learned a ton in my science classes, but obviously my grades didn’t always reflect that. It’s tough - I totally get it.</p>

<p>Not trying to be a Negative Nancy - just giving a student’s perspective (for the record, I am logged onto my parents’ CC account in case you start reading past posts). Threads like this usually set off the usual debate - do you go to State and get a 4.0 and have an easier time getting into med school (but you’re not as prepared) or do you go to UNC and get a 3.0-3.5 and have a hard time getting into med school (but you’re super prepared)? I still have no clue… I guess you end up paying your dues eventually, regardless of which path you choose!</p>

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<p>Why not? Either it’s covered or it’s not. And surely students know that the prof doesn’t have time to go over every little thing. That’s what textbooks and office hours are for.</p>

<p>Sorry the word “unethical” is not right in this context. What I meant to say was that if most students in the class tend to get low grades because of questions in tests on topics that were not covered in class that would not seem fair from the students’ point of view. Many students burn the midnight oil and try their best to learn the stuff covered in class as best as they can. Granted they also have to read the books, there are no excuses for not doing so.
As I have already said before this is not unique to UNC. All top colleges have tough professors who demand the very best from their students. Some would even go to the extent of saying that this is what distinguishes the top colleges from the rest.</p>

<p>The deflation assumes greater significance only in the context of admission to Med Schools. Otherwise it is not a big deal.</p>

<p>With the cost of college today as well as the extra money that will be spent on medical school, it makes sense to complete your degree requirements asap. When my son arrived at UNC he already had 53 credits. He worked hard in high school to be able to take a lighter load in college. He will be taking summer school classes at nearby community colleges. His plans are to graduate with a minimum of a minor in chemistry, a minor in business, & a major in history, while fulfilling his premed requirements within 3 years. That extra 20k that he will save from not having to go to UNC a 4th year will hopefully be applied to medical school or some type of graduate school.</p>

<p>I’m really sorry to burst your bubble again… but med schools do NOT want you graduating early. Don’t do it, don’t do it, don’t do it. I had several friends at UNC get screwed over by med schools and dental schools simply b/c they graduated a year early, and schools hate to see that nowadays. It’s taking some people 4-5 years (or longer) to even get accepted to professional schools b/c schools love older applicants. The pre-med/med school forum on CC has more info on this… but the consensus is generally the same. From my own experiences, grad schools like med or dental school love “life experience” which is something a 21 year-old does not have.</p>

<p>Agree, graduating early will hurt your admissions chances. The average age of first year med students gets higher every year. Being too young will hurt your chances.</p>

<p>Also, do NOT take premed requirements anywhere but UNC and only during regular sessions. Med school admissions frown on summer classes and/or those taken at “away” institutions believing that you are trying to avoid competition and rigor.</p>

<p>Major in something that interests you so that you can have a higher possibility of success in your studies. That said, you still need to maintain a high BCMP (bio/chem/math/physics) GPA as well as your overall GPA.</p>

<p>My son is the student mentioned above; he double majored in Linguistics and Religious Studies with a Chem minor and will graduate June 1 from a top 20 Med school. He matched to his top choice surgical residency and will begin the 6 year program on July 1.</p>

<p>The PreMed Forum on CC will answer all your questions in far greater detail with many current and former Med students (and parents) offering real world advice.</p>

<p>I appreciate your advice. I remember reading that UNC prefered a student attended college four years for it’s medical school. If my son doesn’t get accepted right away, he can certainly finish a double major. I even thought he could get a two year degree in one of the health science majors at a nearby community college. A 2 year degree from a certified program such as Medical Laboratory Technology or Radiography should look good to a medical school.</p>

<p>Sanford dad</p>

<p>Summer school classes for non Pre med requirements are ok- not great but ok but Pre med requirements taken during the summer are an admissions killer.</p>

<p>Please don’t push the early graduation because it truly will hurt his admissions chances. As I said, take this point to the Pre med forums if you don’t believe me- there are many there who can verify what I am saying. Med schools want them to have finished four years at a minimum to gain the life experience and maturity that comes with it.</p>

<p>You may not agree with the premise but it does seem to be one of the new unwritten rules of med school admissions and bucking it will only increase the already long odds for admission given that more than 50% of all applicants are turned down everywhere they apply.</p>

<p>In addition, many schools will not consider reapplication if turned down the first time around.</p>

<p>Totally agree with the maturity part. Don’t doubt a word you are telling me and appreciate the advice. I will tell him to take the remainder of his premed classes during the fall & spring semesters and take history and business classes during the summer. If he’s going to get a double major he will likely have to stay four years anyway.</p>

<p>That’s a good plan. Additionally, and until you’ve been there you can’t know, he needs to enjoy what time he has as an undergrad. Med school is a grind and a beat down unlike anything he has yet experienced. Add to that the fact that he is looking at a MINIMUM of 7 more years of schooling, and much more depending on his specialty, he needs time to learn and explore things that will broaden and enrich him as a person.</p>

<p>In my son’s case after completing 4 years of undergrad and 4 years of Med school he still faces a brutal 6 year residency, 1-2 years of research and another 2 years of fellowship. That’s a long time of being on a treadmill- tell him to enjoy his time in Chapel Hill since its the last fun he’s going to have for a long time.</p>