Grade Deflation in Social Sciences and Competitiveness

<p>I'd like to attend Berkeley Fall of 2009 but my main concern is that my ultimate goal is law school and I've heard horror stories regarding curves and grade deflation at Berkeley.</p>

<p>I will end up at a UC and ultimately what matters in LS admissions is GPA and LSAT so that is why I'm factoring grade deflation in my decision-making process.</p>

<p>My major is history and am quite apt in it, though I'm sure there are plenty of great students at Berkeley.</p>

<p>Can anyone straighten this out? I've heard the worst about Pre-Med and other science and engineering majors but I'd like to know the specifics relating to the social sciences.</p>

<p>For better or for worse, grade deflation appears to be a thing of the past at Cal. Source: theCampusBuddy</a> | Welcome to theCampusBuddy!</p>

<p>Highlights:
3.28 average GPA
79% of grades given are B or higher
6% of grades given are C- or lower</p>

<p>Common pre-law majors
History: 3.28 average GPA
Economics: 3.07
English: 3.37
Political science: 3.28
Rhetoric: 3.42</p>

<p>Chemical engineering (for reference): 3.21</p>

<p>Whoa, why is the average GPA for Econ lower than Chem E? Also why is it way lower than all of the other majors you listed?</p>

<p>(Curious business/Econ major)</p>

<p>for the op I've taken 5 history classes here for pleasure (including upper divs) and I've gotten As in all of them. For some I read, for others I didn't buy the books. I went to all the lectures though and bought black lightning notes. History is very lecture based and you can get As without reading. Just do well on the essay and study lectures.</p>

<p>Also, for history you don't compete with others, you compete with yourself. There is no set curve for history unlike in other majors.</p>

<p>How are the history and poli sci courses usually structured and what do you mean you only compete with yourself?</p>

<p>Thanks a lot everyone!</p>

<p>(So would it be feasible to get a 3.85-4 for a very good student?)</p>

<p>After looking more closely at the source's data, I believe the calculated GPA includes grades for graduate classes. Since graduate classes typically only give A or B grades, this inflates the average GPA, especially for departments that have a lot of graduate classes. This means that the undergraduate Chemical Engineering average GPA is quite a bit lower than 3.21.</p>

<p>I checked the website. I don't think it includes graduate courses. Remember that Econ 1/2/3/100/101 are <em>very</em> popular weeder courses, and considering 1000+ students each year take econ 1 alone, and 35% of students are expected to receive a grade of C+ or lower, it drags the econ avg GPA down significantly.</p>

<p>Just check out majors like BioE and IEOR. The GPAs are very high. But consider the lower div courses in math (avg gpa <3.0), physics (<3.0), engineering (<3.0). (if not <3.0, very close to 3.0).</p>

<p>This is why it's so scandalous that transfer students are able to bypass these lower-division grade hurting courses, yet freshmen admits have to struggle through them. Note that graduation GPA between freshmen admits and transfer admits are the same, so think about how "well" transfer students do compared to freshmen admits at upper divison courses in general. of course, there are certainly transfer students who don't struggle their first semester at berkeley, but i tend to believe that is the exception.</p>

<p>hmm yes, I agree. The Bs I've gotten in Cal have been in the 100 series in the Econ department. The Haas version is a lot easier. My fault for not trying harder, but still...</p>

<p>Also to nickthecoolest, yeah a 3.85+ is definitely feasible. Stereotypically speaking, Political Science is easier to get a high GPA than History is. History is also the only major (I believe) that requires a very long thesis (40-60 pages) for graduation. Those are some things to consider.</p>

<p>What I meant by "you compete with yourself" is, in History/Poli Sci classes there is no set curve. </p>

<p>In business/econ/science/math, etc. for example they always dictate, for example, that 20% of the class gets As, 30% Bs, and then 50% C+s and lower. It varies by professor and class. Sometimes a professor might choose 15% As and 35% Bs. It depends.</p>

<p>In terms of structure for history/poli sci: For lower divs it's 3 hours of lecture a week plus 1 hour of discussion led by a GSI. Then upper divs just 3 hours of lecture, no discussion. 1-2 papers a semester, 1 midterm, 1 final. Reading complements the lectures, but like I said earlier, lectures are way more important than readings. Professors usually give study guides with ID terms, potential essay questions, etc. It makes the studying a lot easier. My recommendation, take good notes/get lectures.berkeley.edu, and study the lectures. You can get an A if you study only the lectures and not read. However, you might enjoy the reading...so either way.</p>

<p>Thanks a lot. I was seriously doubting attending Berkeley due to the idea that it would just be a waste of my ability in terms of working hard and getting nothing back.</p>

<p>Is political science solely easier because of the papers involved in history?</p>

<p>I think you'll be fine in History. The grade situation gets really difficult in introductory science/math courses, where they are actively trying to weed out people from those majors and the expectations are so far beyond what people were used to in high school. Not that you won't have to work to earn As in history, because you probably will in most cases.</p>

<p>3.85 would definitely get you graduation honors (top 20%) and maybe even high honors (top 10%). My experience with history classes has been that it's pretty easy to get an A-, but that history profs tend to be stingy with out-and-out As.</p>

<p>As for whether that site aggregates GPA data, I'm actually not too sure now. the ChemE page lists some grad classes, but I'm too lazy to type everything into a spreadsheet and see if the grad classes are averaged in.</p>

<p>MCB average GPA = 2.96</p>

<p>yay for premed</p>

<p>Haha yeah. I totally don't get why MCB is so popular among premeds.</p>

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Is political science solely easier because of the papers involved in history?

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<p>Yeah, that and history requires more memorization and assigns more reading (select and pick). It's fun memorization though. I actually really enjoy history classes and the professors are amazing. I think the subject is far more interesting than poli sci but that's personal opinion.</p>

<p>Also it's more difficult because PS has no required thesis whereas the history thesis is really long.</p>

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MCB average GPA = 2.96

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<p>I think Berkeley's placement rate at med schools is about 60% or so. 40% of people who apply don't get in anywhere.... :(</p>