Grades and MIT admission

Colleges and Universities A-Z Massachusetts Institute of Technology
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<p>"I ask only because, I have read at various places (and heard in a video of a webcast by one of your admissions officer, uploaded by MITAdmissions at vimeo) that you consider grades a lot."</p>

<p>That's a quote from the FAQ thread. I haven't seen the video, but I have to agree that I, too, noticed the recurring comments about the importance of grades. </p>

<p>Now, I know that admission process is mostly geared towards the realities of the US systems where the high schools know that grades will be considered for college admissions. But I still wonder, am I the only one that has problem with this? </p>

<p>My GPA has always been quite good (or very very good), but I've never found it reflective of my actual abilities. Everyone knows that the value of GPA depends on the rigor of the school, but I sometimes feel that many people forget that the very teacher is extremely important, too. Some have very very harsh garding policies, others give all students the same grade in the class, regardless of what they've been doing the entire year (no, really, I know such teachers). Some believe that the better you are the harder tests you should get, and the tougher garading curve they apply when grading your tests. </p>

<p>At the beginning, when I realized it's possible for me to study abroad I tried to get good grades like a good MIT applicant should. But, honestly, this year I have Physics and Chemistry Olympiads going, not to mention a few other things I would happily apply my time to, and I honestly don't feel like retaking every stupid test, because I got a C because the way I worded something wasn't the way the teacher would like it to see, or because the teacher forgot to mention we were to do one other thing not mentioned on the test paper ...and because A wasn't included in the grading curve in the first place, which made the curve start at B and then automatically fall to C with every mistake (which is a very frequent policy among teachers here, for some reason).
Regardless of my overall chances, if something like grades is going to kill my application, then, I guess, I'm going to live with it, because it simply is a waste of time, for me. </p>

<p>I hope my post didn't come across too negative or something, or as if I were trying to say I know better how to conduct admission process, because I know I don't. It's just that when I heard that grades are considered for admission to top schools I was like "whoah, that gotta be a joke!", and I still can't quite wrap my head around the concept. Maybe it simply is because of the discrepancies between the US education system and the one I know. But I'm sure that grades not always having equal value is something that US high schools are guilty of, too.</p>

<p>I wrote about myself, but it was meant simply as an example, I really don't want this thread to be about me. I'm just curious what others think, should grades be heavily weighted in admission or not and why? (and again, I do NOT try to suggest that I think there's something wrong with MIT admission process, I'm way too stupid for that.)</p>

<p>I'll be grateful for every response, thank you :)
I'm just genuinly curious :)</p>

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<p>Oh, it seems, I cannot edit my post anymore =(</p>

<p>I just thought I want to change my question. I no longer mean to ask to what extent grades should be considered in admisssions, because that’s not mine to judge.</p>

<p>Instead, my question is: do you think grades are truly reflective of studen’s actual abilities?</p>

<p>Thank you :)</p>

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<p>Asking to what extent grades is used in the admissions process is a reasonable question, so I’ll throw in my thoughts on this one. Basically, MIT wants to know that you are capable and willing to handle classwork here. (As someone mentioned on another thread, admission to MIT isn’t a merit prize, it’s a guess as to how well you’re going to do in the future, in some sense. There is quite a bit of overlap between the people who would get in under either criteria, though.) If you have a C in a literature class but got a good score on the SAT reading section, MIT won’t really worry about it compared to if you got a 300 on the reading section. Things like the secondary school report also, hopefully, clarify processes at your school. If there’s no opportunity to get an A in a class (… I honestly don’t quite believe this, but), the counselor should mention it on the report. The point is, grades are one piece of the puzzle. Keep in mind that the rest of the application exists.</p>

<p>As for the second question, as I said before - grades are a component that shows something about you. It is not absolutely reflective of a student’s abilities - neither is the SAT, or AP exams. But the fact is, we don’t have a test that narrows down one perfect number for MIT admissions, even in just the academic field. Some schools choose to do arbitrary combinations of different numbers. MIT chooses to take as much as they can about the applicant in context. The idea that grades would just be completely left out of this process is baffling :P</p>

<p>If you believe you can show actual ability through another means, make sure it goes on your application.</p>

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<p>This is yet another common post that we see a lot of on CC. It often takes different forms.</p>

<p>Those who are poor test-takers write to complain about the iniquity of having the SAT’s considered as anything but a sideshow in admissions, given the weight that should be paid to an extensive body of studies reflected in the transcript. Others, like this poster complain about the weight given to the GPA, when a glance at the test scores should have shown the candidates ability to do the work. There are a wide variety of variations on this theme.</p>

<p>The answer is, as it always has been, that admissions is a mosaic. Every factor counts, everything is considered, nothing is definitive. Nothing on its own rules a student in or out. The sense is that, in the aggregate, the student’s capabilities can be fairly assessed, and an appropriate decision can be taken. That has always struck me as fair and reasonable.</p>

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<p>I’m sorry I’m dragging this necro thread back up, I just tought I’ll respond. </p>

<p>First, thank you for your reply PiperXP (planes…? yayyy! xD) :slight_smile: I get why grades are considered, really. But I think, a few recent posts in the FAQ thread explained it to me. That is, it’s just a different approach to grading by my teachers that make me scratch my head.
And, yes, A is not always possible… some teacher do so by principle, because they think you should always be humble about your knowledge and therefore nobody really deserves the highest grade even if they’re good. Sometimes, the teachers believe that A is not a grade you “just” get - for example my junior year I had straight A’s in my biology class - but I didn’t participate in any contests so I got a “B” as a final grade.
I guess teachers in America simply don’t do such things and so it makes more sense to judge applicants by transcript :slight_smile:
Because the worst is, over here it really varies from teacher to teacher.</p>

<p>Mikalye, I feel you were not very fond of my post, but I hope no hard feelings :slight_smile: I didn’t mean to complain, really, I was just curious. Thank you for your reply, too.</p>

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<p>nefliege, there prevailing mentality over here is that grades are a 100-point rubric. If you check all the boxes (i.e., know everything you know on quizzes, do your labs, and do your homework), you will end up with full marks in the class. Now, it fluctuates when you introduce subjective assignments like essays and short-answer test questions, but those are generally also graded on rubrics. If you filled a class with the 20 top students, it’s entirely plausible that they all end up with high A’s. </p>

<p>Very, very rarely will a high school teacher use a curve to grade, because it’s an entirely different mentality. Not only do you have to check the boxes, you have to check them better than anyone else. Put the same 20 kids in a class, and only the top three or four end up with A’s, even though they are all perfectly competent.</p>

<p>Each has its merits, but I think the rubric system is better: you should be graded on what you know, and not how you stack up. Provided, of course, the rubric is sufficiently challenging. That’s where the American system falls short–our standards (and thus our rubrics) are ridiculously low. If our mentality placed more importance on education, we’d have far more students operating at today’s 4.0 standards.</p>

<p>This will sound pretentious, but I don’t think it’s hard to pull A’s (or at least B’s) in an American high school. The people with poor grades tend to be people too lazy to do a good job. I’ll admit, I’m lazy too: I take advantage of the system for classes I dislike and do the bare minimum to get an A.</p>

<p>Anyway, as an international applicant, MIT will already be far more lenient with your grades. But I’ve seen MIT largely ignore grades for US applicants as well. There’s a student from my [public] high school who was accepted with a 3.6 GPA, rather low SAT scores, and only a few extracurriculars. (To his credit, he was struggling with a learning disability.) Yet he absolutely loved physics, had a machine shop in his basement, and built a small-scale nuclear fusor…</p>

<p>Now, obviously you don’t have to build a fusor to have MIT ignore your grades; as long as you can demonstrate the same passion for science and explain your school performance, you have as much a shot as anyone. I invest my free time into web development, I have a friend who reads textbooks for fun and takes OpenCourseWare classes on Friday and Saturday nights–there’s plenty of options. Sounds like your Olympiads will be more than enough.</p>

<p>I also have friends who join extracurriculars just to put them on their activities sheet and get hammered every weekend. MIT knows.</p>