<p>I will admit to reading only the abstract and skimming the rest of this article: <a href="http://cshe.berkeley.edu/publications/docs/ROPS.GEISER._SAT_6.12.07.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://cshe.berkeley.edu/publications/docs/ROPS.GEISER._SAT_6.12.07.pdf</a>
but the gist appears to be that high school GPA does in fact correlate with college GPA, although the charts make it appear that the average is about .5 to .8 lower for college than for high school.</p>
<p>I am currently doing duel enrollment at Illinois State University and am getting my worst grades in my creative Writing class in High school. Because I hate doing busy work and all the nonessential crap, I have gotten a few b's and have a 3.9 gpa. In fact, last year I received a B, two semesters in a row but received a 5 on the AP Test. College classes are much easier because you only have to worry about 5 big test instead of a 100 small retarded busy assignments that are assigned from teachers who possibly suffer from mental disorders.</p>
<p>LOL at jclay2 summing up his h.s. as:</p>
<p>
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100 small retarded busy assignments that are assigned from teachers who possibly suffer from mental disorders.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Sounds like l,000 points of darkness!</p>
<p>P.S. please don't become an accountant...</p>
<p>
[quote]
the gist appears to be that high school GPA does in fact correlate with college GPA, although the charts make it appear that the average is about .5 to .8 lower for college than for high school.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>DMD77, you may recall that the College Board's research has shown that the best predictor for college 1st year GPA is HS GPA, so this is no surprise. Curious that the work is from Berkeley. Do you suppose it stemmed from UC's consideration of dumping the SAT?</p>
<p>As far as I am concerned, my GPA in college thus far is far higher than my high school GPA. I went to a tough British School overseas. My teachers were tough and we had to earn our grades. Coming from a public Blue Ribbon High School in the USA, where getting good grades were extremely easy, it was a tough transition to the British School. But I am reaping the dividends now. I am in one of the top 15 nationally ranked universities. I am currently studying engineering and even though it can get really tough at times I can handle it thanks to my high school conditioning. Also I do not kill myself studying. If I can be in the top 15-20% in each class and have enough time to pursue other extra-curricular activities which does not include drinking and making a fool of myself then I am happy. Some of my current class mates who had a perfect GPA in high School are struggling now and cannot handle the pressure or the fact that they are getting C's and D's. Also there are no stupid extra credit assignments in college to artificially bolster ones GPA. So for me college is much easier.</p>
<p>I would like to see somebody correlate high school GPA PLUS SAT scores--I suspect there is more to the story than HS GPA. I know SATs in and of themselves do not do a great job predicting grades because so much of grades is just getting the work done. However, SAT's do correlate with aptitude. </p>
<p>D aced everything in high school but her SAT's were lopsided--top of the top on critical reasoning and top 10% in math. She's at a decent college and is getting A's in anything involving reading, writing and critical reasoning and B's in math and science. Her SAT writing was not as good as her writing; she's getting A's on papers where classmates are being eviscerated by the comments and given C's.</p>
<p>The College Board, no surprise, has done numerous studies on this and just about any imaginable related topic. For instance, this link claims to show that for some GPA levels, the SAT is a better predictor of FGPA. <a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/research/abstract/109965.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.collegeboard.com/research/abstract/109965.html</a> ,although when I look at their summary of results in Table 2, it looks pretty random to me.</p>
<p>This link has some interesting nuggets of information, but their methodology (logistic regression) is curious. At any rate, through the link above you can tap into a trove of research on just about any SAT related topic you can think of. Be aware, though, that some of the more interesting sounding studies are quite old, dating back to the early 1980s, so you may need to hunt for more current studies like this one.</p>
<p>I have to echo the "college is different" sentiment. My d used to dance 14 hours/week at a studio 4o minutes away from the house (5 days/week, so it added about 7 hours commuting time as well). She was looking forward to joining the ballet group and the jazz group at college - no commute, fewer classes, etc. </p>
<p>In the end, she's only joined the ballet group, dancing less than 3 hours/week. Why? She doesn't have time! She was surprised about it - "Who'd have thought that with only 4 classes and no commute! I thought it'd be no problem to dance as much as I did before. But there's really no time!" She's found she's had to do much more work on her own, find her own resources, do a lot more critical thinking. Yet her high school has prepared her well and she's doing very well so far.</p>
<p>It's just different.</p>
<p>Chevda,</p>
<p>Stay tuned. My D is now a senior, and finds she has a lot more time to do things she enjoys. She's found that she actually "gets" the process now, so class work is a lot easier. I suspect the truth is that she, like most of us, learned by experience and is now more efficient in her studying.</p>
<p>Have any others found their college seniors are having an easier time of it? Or are they buried with postgrad planning?</p>
<p>I think it varies substantially school to school. At my D's school it is incrediby difficult to attain summa cum laude (3.95) or magna cum laude (3.85) status at graduation. Ridiculously hard for all majors and virtually unheard of for Physics, Math, Chemistry, and Bio majors. In 06 for example there were 4 summa cum laudes out of 337 graduates and 12 magna cum laudes. Out of those numbers 1 science major graduated magna cum laude , and 1 summa cum laude. I'd guess 30% graduate cum laude (Edit: and I was wrong. @25% graduate with cum laude or higher. 3.5. ) At one of our two state flagships (A+M) my daughter's smarter girl friends all have their 4.0's intact thus far, and that's six kids - two of which are seniors.</p>
<p>I guess based on those numbers that at D's school it is difficult to make A's.</p>
<p>D has done very well but has had to adjust her sights. Perfection is no longer the goal. Mastery of the subject matter is. </p>
<p>While she is torturing the upperclassmen and setting the curve in her upper level bios , she has real competition for the "prizes" in other science courses and so far is just a "top student" in her non-science courses with A's and A-'s. </p>
<p>She is adjusting but not without some difficulty to prof's who give zero A's in classes of 15. </p>
<p>College is different than high school and one college is different from another. </p>
<p>I have come to the conclusion that schools with A-'s like to give them out. Often. But , at least for the Texas med school apps (state schools), they are all A's. They don't recognize A-'s and for D that's finestkind. ;)</p>
<p>She has a full mouthful this semester. Can't spit it out and for the first time in her life may have trouble swallowing it. LOL. Well, she had to experience it someday - why not now? But she's a determined little cuss. She'll be O.K..;)</p>
<p>"two of which" . Jeez. "two of whom". I can just feel my brain leaking out day by day. </p>
<p>Anybody out there know the percentages of honor grads at their kid's schools? (My kid's school is small enough , I just counted them from the "Commencement" Program online.)</p>
<p>The numbers I cited seem absurdly low, at least in the magna/summa range. I seem to recall Harvard cut back to where now "only" 45% or so graduate with "honors" but my number could be off.</p>
<p>At Emory this May, I think there were about 7-8% graduating with honors; students have to do an undergraduate honors thesis and a lot of the students just don't want to have to deal with all of the work involved.</p>
<p>I should qualify that by saying the numbers were from Emory College (the undergraduate liberal arts division). I don't know what the numbers were from the other undergraduate divisions, such as Gozueta or the nursing school</p>
<p>Harvard has two kinds of honors. One is based on overall GPA. Based on that you can graduate summa, magna, or just plain cum laude. Summa is limited to the top 5% of the class. I am NOT positive but I think the overall number is 30% for cum laude or better.</p>
<p>In addition, there are departmental honors, which are based on how you do in your particular concentration and almost always require an honors thesis. </p>
<p>The percentage of students graduating "with honors" at Harvard in the past--as ridiculed in the Boston Globe--is determined by adding all those who graduate cum laude or better AND those who have departmental honors.</p>
<p>It really wasn't all that inflated, IMO. Most Harvard students do excel in the subjects they choose as their concentrations. But , yes, Harvard has made it more difficult to get departmental honors.</p>
<p>I actually like this system--which is not unique to Harvard. A friend of my kid's--not at Harvard--was an amazing artist who majored in studio art. She was far and away the best artist in her class. She graduated with highest honors in studio art--something the art department awarded about once every five years. Overall, she was in the bottom half of the class. I think it's perfectly fine to recognize excellence in one's field--and the designation helped her get a good job.</p>
<p>jonri, D's school has departmental honors, too and it also requires a thesis. I just don't think I saw anybody with the"Honors" designation without one of the "cum laude's", too. I'll check.</p>
<p>And 5% for summa seems about right to me as does honors (honors and cum laude and up) to about 25-30%.</p>
<p>7 to 8% at Emory has to be just departmental honors, not cum laude and up graduates. Don't you think?</p>
<p>Yale has the same system as Harvard, basically, except I think departmental honors is called "distinction". General honors are automatic based on class rank/GPA: 5% summa, 10% magna, 15% cum laude. Distinction in the major requires at least an A- in 3/4 of your major requirements and on a thesis.</p>