Is college easier or harder than high school?

Parents Forum
1

<p>For those of you who have freshmen who are home for winter break:</p>

<p>Have they said anything about whether college is easier or harder than high school? And if so, what kind of college do they attend and what kind of high school did they graduate from?</p>

<p>My daughter, who was in a highly competitive IB program in high school and now attends a university in U.S. News's top 20 (but not HYPSM), says that college is definitely easier, and most of her former high school classmates seem to agree. </p>

<p>One of the big advantages of college, in her opinion, is that she can actually get enough sleep (something that was impossible in high school since she had to get up at 6 AM). Also, my daughter says that at college, she is competing with people who don't have as much experience in time management or as much academic preparation as she has, and since the college courses are graded on a curve, this works in her favor.</p>

<p>But this is probably atypical.</p>

2

<p>For my S, now a sophomore, college is much harder than high school. And much harder than the classes he took at UC Berkeley while a high school senior(multivariable calculus, linear algebra). Sleep? I'm not sure if he gets less sleep or more sleep than he did in high school - but I do know his sleep schedule is very different - before coming home for winter break he was up all Thursday night finishing finals, turned the finals in around 7 am then slept until 5 pm when he needed to head for the airport. But this is probably atypical. His school, the C in HYPSMC.</p>

3

<p>oaklandmom. So. "Hell is hot." Who'd have thunk it? LOL. </p>

<p>I guess D's answer (although a soph) would be mixed. Courses- some yes (maybe 60%) some no ( maybe 40%). She still believes her high school calc mentor (he of the flying erasers) was the toughest (and most rewarding) teacher of her life (and I don't think he'll get knocked off that perch easily ;)).</p>

<p>The overall experience? Nah. I don't think so. She's having so much more fun. More kids on her plane that can relate. Quality of teaching has risen dramatically so there is a consistency that was lacking in high school. Quite tough to know what the teacher wants when the teacher is an idiot. </p>

<p>So, like I said - mixed. Coursework, a qualified yes. Overall experience , no.</p>

4

<p>For me college was easier than high school - or at least it felt that way. I got about the same grades. Part of it was that most of the courses didn't feel like work and a third of them (the studio art courses) were pure pleasure.</p>

<p>My son is having a similar experience at Carnegie Mellon. He's only in one course that he doesn't enjoy. (History) That one had five papers - more than any course had in high school, but the rest of his schedule is what he considers fun. He didn't seem to have a punishing schedule by any means. He's not a party person, so he's got more extra hours than many. :) His high school schedule was pretty rigorous he took enough APs to be a National Scholar. It looks like his grades are on track to be similar to high school.</p>

5

<p>Oaklandmon,</p>

<p>Sounds typical for hard science/engineering types even if not at C. </p>

<p>My impression from students from very competitive high schools now at elite colleges: first semester depends a lot on course selection. For those who are conservative, and essentially retake classes they had in high school in order to fill in the gaps and adjust to college life, or who carefully make sure they have all the prerequisites if not simply repeating courses, it can be a smooth introduction. For those who dive into the most advanced courses the college will let them take, it can be like getting hit in the face with a firehouse. </p>

<p>C is famous for this. "You took it in high school, so you think you know calculus? You're wrong. Your high school course meant you are PROBABLY ready to start learning calculus, which we will proceed to teach you"</p>

<p>Overall, more time (no commutes, less time spent in class, less busy work), more freedom, more interesting, but MUCH higher intellectual standards. Work that would have been "A" caliber in a tough high school is considered just scratching the surface of what the faculty wants them to learn in college. Freshman intro courses can be a transition in demands and grading standards, but many hot shots from high school skip the these classes.</p>

6

<p>For me, college was the same, because I was taking mostly music and humanities classes my freshman year, and that is easy for me. My kids are in mostly math and science, and are in the classes with all the premed and engineering kids- the weedout classes. So even if it's an intro chem or calc class, the competition for A's is pretty cutthroat, and everything is graded on a curve. If you're not concerned about getting an A, and just want to pass the class with a B or C, it's not as bad.</p>

7

<p>Is college harder than high school? Frankly, I would say that overall the answer is yes. Why?</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Generally, there are more demands in college courses than in high school. There are usually more papers and more topics covered, and the information is usually more sophisticated.</p></li>
<li><p>No spoon feeding: Many high schools resort to a bit of spoon feeding for their material. In fact, in some courses, you don't even need to read the book. This is generally NOT true in college. Reading the text book is usually crucial.</p></li>
<li><p>Distractions: High school usually had helicopter parents overseeing a lot of their childrens' lives. For example, many parents insisted on time management, made sure the kids were up and awake for class, and eating correctly. No one is doing this for students in college. Dealing with distractions and time management may actually be the toughest part of college. This really does take a strong, self-motiviated kid to succeed in college. Too many times I have seen top notch, smart kids due poorly in college due to these distractions. A good example was a national merit scholar in Arizona. He had a full tuition ride. He met a girl in the honors program,which resulted is such as distraction that it resulted in disastrious grades for both of them.</p></li>
<li><p>Geting help: In high school, if you didn't do well, your parents probably found you a tutor. Again, they were there to oversee your success. In college , the student themselves must seek out any tutoring or counseling. There is no one overseeing their lives or their academic success.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Frankly, there are only two factors that make high school a bit tougher than college. The first, which can be a big deal, is that high school is very inflexible regarding their scheduling. Kids have to get up early for class. If you are not an early bird, this could be a real problem. College, at least, can provide some time flexibility for class schedules. My son in in freshmen year started class at 11 AM,which is a LOT later than that of high school.</p>

<p>The second factor is that in high school you take math,science, social students, english, and/or language each year. If you are weak in some areas, this can result in problems for the student. Generally after freshmen year, students start majoring in areas that they are probably strong in. There usually isn't that diversity in subject matter that you would find in high school.</p>

<p>Bottom line: College requires a LOT more maturity and drive than that of high school. If the students has these attributes, they shouldn't find college too difficult. The problem is that I have witnessed many, many kids who do not have the maturity, time-management and insulations against the many distractions that college offers. Sadly, there is no way for a college to judge this in admission. They assume that kids with top grades will have these skills,which obviously isn't always the case.</p>

8

<p>curmudgeon, oh yes, "Hell is hot" and its exactly what DS was looking for. He likes it hot. Maybe that's why he picked C over M: its too cold in Boston. He can wear t-shirts and go barefoot year round in Pasadena if he so desires. Now I have a new line I can toss at him when he's moaning about his problem sets. I must tell you though when I first read "hell is hot" I thought you were referring to my current real estate situation which feels like hell. But that is another thread. </p>

<p>afan, I agree its probably true of other top tech schools - high school courses meant you are probably ready to start learning....work that would have been "A" caliber in high school just scratches the surface of what is expected in college.</p>

9

<p>Marian,
DS2 says that returning students have come back and reported the same thing. We have a family friend whose son is at JHU, went through the same HS program, and said it, too. DS holds onto that hope as he wades through the program! He will be happy when he no longer has to deal with Spanish or math.</p>

<p>However, I agree with other posters who have talked about the tough part being where one learns to manage one's life w/o benefit of parents.</p>

10

<p>Both of my Ds are CS majors in the engineering colleges at their universities. In their cases college is much more difficult than HS. Engineering, math, CS classes are difficult, the Chem classes my one D has taken for her Chem minor on top of the CS major were difficult, the grading curves were tough, and in engineering they seem to go out of their way to try to weed out students in the first year (both made it past the weed-wacking).</p>

<p>OTOH they've had some roommates in different majors, like poliSci that seem to be a breeze with relatively little work required, no tough curves, no weeding, and no tough material.</p>

<p>So, the answer to your question is that it depends greatly on the major and the college itself.</p>

11

<p>
[quote]
Work that would have been "A" caliber in a tough high school is considered just scratching the surface of what the faculty wants them to learn in college.

[/quote]

That was my kids' experience as well (at Stanford and Swarthmore), but it's so much more fun then HS!</p>

12

<p>My son says he was very well prepared by his HS for college work, especially by some of his AP teachers. He works hard and plays hard, just as the quidebooks predicted. I know it's a lot more fun being surrounded by kindred spirits. College is socially much better.</p>

13

<p>I just wanted to throw in the perspective of a non-math/science student (sophomore) who finds that college is, on a whole, harder than high school, at least in terms of the work itself. I mean, it's true that I don't know if any class I'm going to take in college will be as challenging as calculus was in terms of me literally struggling to understand the material, so in that way, it's easier. But in terms of the classes I am taking, in areas that are my strengths, the material is definitely harder, and there is normally more work—and this is coming from a high school that I think prepared me really well for college.</p>

<p>For example, I took Photo I in high school and did really well pretty easily, because the teachers were glad that I was trying and had some artistic sense. My Photo I class last semester, OTOH, was a thousand times more work, and the teacher a thousand times more critical, and, in the end, my work was MUCH better. I was forced to look at my art more critically, and think about it in different and more sophisticated ways. </p>

<p>The same could be applied to almost all the humanities and social science classes I've taken — we have a ton more reading (read King Lear this weekend? Heck, that's a light load!), often of more challenging works (we did not read Gertrude Stien or Kant in high school), and the kind of thinking expected of us in papers is far more sophisticated (and in some cases, like in film analysis, required picking up a whole new kind of analysis skill set). Not to mention that in college, a 5 page paper is just something you kind of bang out every week or so for one class or another (normally while having other reading due for that class), and even a 10 or 15 page paper isn't that big a deal —in high school, I had very few papers over 10 pages, and they were all like huge projects that we spent several months researching for or working on. And even a five page paper would be kind of a big deal.</p>

<p>That said, the work is more enjoyable, as is the overall experience. In high school, classes that were a struggle were just frustrating, because they were all subjects that I was never going to get very well (math, Spanish). In college, the challenges are much more rewarding, because I always end up learning a lot and becoming a better thinker by the end of the class. And not having to get up as early or be in actual class as much is really nice. And the social world is also better--even though I enjoyed high school.</p>

14

<p>For S, it is harder than h.s., but a much better fit, so it's worth the effort. No more busywork, and wasting of time. Better teachers. Socially, more comfortable.</p>

15

<p>"Harder" is such a vague term, as other posters have pointed out. When it comes down to the quality of work a student is expected to produce, though, if high school is "harder" than college, then you've got a problem. The expectations for college level work should far exceed those from high school. I went to an excellent, "competitive" New England prep school that expected a lot of work and a lot of effort--it expected excellence, in all ways. My grades in high school and college are pretty much the same. I feel like I work fewer hours a day in college, but I'm not sure--they may just be different hours. The quality of work I need to produce in college, though, certainly exceeds the quality of work that I had to produce in high school for the same grades. An A paper in the hardest history class in my high school, the kind of class where only one or two As will be given out on per paper throughout all sections, would very possibly be in the C-range at my college. The level of inquiry, investigation, careful thought and analysis, and polished writing for an A paper in one of my college courses is so far beyond what was required in high school that the two are hardly comparable. You can debate differences in time management skills required, amount of "busy work," how much sleep you can get a night, what kinds of non-academic problems high school and college students must deal with, how enjoyment factors in, and a hundred other things, but in the end when it comes to the quality of work students are expected to produce, there should be no question.</p>

<p>(Students from my high school often come back from college and say that college is easier than our high school was. I thought that was a problem when I first heard people say that in middle school, and I think it's a problem now. Part of it is that students from my high school, which does not practice much grade inflation and gives out plenty of Cs and Ds (and even Fs), sometimes have trouble getting into the types of colleges they likely should be getting into. So, maybe some of these kids are just not at colleges that challenge them at the level they should be challenged at. Or maybe the colleges just aren't setting their bars high enough. I hope that when people say that colleges is easier than high school that they are saying that the stress level is better or they enjoy college work more or they have more free time, but I think in many cases, sadly, the college just isn't demanding enough. This is off-topic, but I do think that colleges needs to use grades to express their expectations. If you want students to produce superior work, stop giving them Bs for work that doesn't even come close. Anyway, that's the end of my afternoon rant...)</p>

<p>Oh, almost forgot. I'm a sophomore at the University of Chicago. I've already talked about my high school.</p>

16

<p>Vague is a good description. For my daughter, it's "Easier" but she get's lower grades. She still maintains a 3.2-3.4gpa, which is lower than her 3.8-3.9gpa in high school, but the clases are easier and less stressful. She turns in assignments by certain dates which allow her the flexibility to do it in her time instead of it has to be in on "Thursday" or whatever the next class is. The classes are also more specialized; also contributing to the lower grades. I.e. She will be taking a marketing, finance, statistics, etc... class. Didn't have these in High School so the classes are definitely challenging. But because they are her major, they are more interesting. Plus; in high school she was in the IB program which meant a higher level of difficulty and expectation from the "Average" high school student. In college, all classes are taught to the average student level. Having had a more difficult studying regiment and testing expectation, she doesn't have as difficult of a time compared to many in her classes.</p>

17

<p>Your impression depends on your major and your future goals. I doubt that any premed does not think that college is significantly more difficult than high school.</p>

18

<p>our son, now a college senior, has found the course work much harder than hs. But remember, in hs students report for opening bell at 8am, are dismissed at 3pm, and cap it off with some ec which gets them home at 5pm with hw to do.</p>

<p>In college time is very less structured and there is time to study or relax throughout some days. In addition deft scheduling can ensure that the first class is at 10am or later, a very good thing for those young adults. So in this respect college is more suited for the students.</p>