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</p>
<p>Oh, I can do a mean Patch Adams when called upon! Truth be told, however, I mostly dedicated my time to less “fun” activities such as translating and writing operating guidelines and funding campaigns in between plenty of Yates’ corrected chi-square follies.</p>
<p>There’s an old adage: If you want something done, ask a busy person.</p>
<p>I see quite a lot of can’ts in this thread: </p>
<ul>
<li>Can’t work while in school because it would detract from studying</li>
<li>Can’t work during summers because all the jobs go to rich students with connections</li>
<li>Can’t work during summers because only drudge jobs are available.</li>
<li>Can’t work during summers because earnings would reduce need-based financial aid</li>
<li>Can’t afford to take unpaid internship</li>
<li>Can’t hunt for jobs while in school because it is too time-consuming</li>
</ul>
<p>But the world is filled with have-to’s and can-do’s:</p>
<ul>
<li>Have to work while in school to have money for books and food</li>
<li>Have to work during summers to earn money for school </li>
<li>Can find the time to look for employment</li>
<li>Can reach out to make connections and network on one’s own</li>
<li>Can earn money through drudge work to subsidize unpaid internship</li>
</ul>
<p>And down the line, whenever a person chooses to enter the job market, the “can’t” person is going to be competing with the can-do’s, and the can-do’s will have better resumes, better networks, better references. </p>
<p>That’s not going to change; it’s not going to get easier. </p>
<p>Bemoaning the fact that it’s “hard” isn’t going to help. While the person is griping and moaning about how tough things are, someone else has already pushed “send” on an application for a job that might have been a good opportunity for the griper. </p>
<p>Applying for a job also involves a range of skills --and those who have been through the process also have better job-hunting skills. They have more polished resumes, better cover letters, and are more comfortable interviewing, simply because they have learned from mistakes they have made in the past. They’ve developed a more efficient job-hunting process – they are better able to match their skills to to the job listings, to know what sorts of listings might elicit a response, which are a waste of their time. Even the process of unsuccessfully hunting for jobs can be educational in that sense, as well as a potential networking opportunity – so the person who is sitting home waiting for the right job to come along is also falling behind the person who is actively, but not yet successfully, engaged in looking for work.</p>
<p>For the record, D does hold down a part-time job (had two for a while) on campus during the academic year. She also competes for a top 10 program in her Div. 1 sport all three seasons, and manages the workload at a top 5 academic school. So there are a lot of “cans” in her life, including the fact that she has found and excelled at quasi-professional jobs for the past 4 summers while her friends languished at the beach. I resent all the implications of laziness, lack of priorities, sense of entitlement, and a negative attitude. She has had her resume looked at by people in her field, to check for any issues and there are none. She made it to second round interviews for 2 jobs, so there don’t seem to be any glaring interview problems. BUT she still hasn’t found a job THIS summer. If her school had an accounting major, I’d suggest she pursue it since I have seen a lot of accounting jobs.</p>
<p>The job market is tough out there no doubt, however it just means student have to work harder, network more, volunteer. </p>
<p>I am a hiring manager and for the last 10 years have recruited a manager trainee program. We target LAC’s looking for high GPA students. </p>
<p>I will not interview, much less hire a student that has not earned a paycheck. The expectation is that someone that has lived a quarter of their life would have earned money. It speaks to work ethic. </p>
<p>I love to see that students juggled school, clubs, AND work during the school year. If they haven’t it is an indication that the student may not be able to handle multiple priorities. There are so many students that do this. If you don’t you are at a disadvantage. </p>
<p>My recommendation to parents is to encourage work in the same way you encourage education.</p>
<p>I am surprised by the number of students unable to find summer employment. I am guessing that unemployment rates vary by region. </p>
<p>My high school student just found her first job (yeah), and is earning very good $$. My friends with returning college students have all told me it took about a week but employment was found. </p>
<p>I do think, that this employment situation could become a new normal for all of us. There is something to be said for learning a couple recession proof skills (like waitressing). It is something I have been giving consideration to lately- especially since D would like to major in a field that has traditionally high ue rates.</p>
<p>Our library will be taking interns this summer to work on clipping files. It’s actually a pretty interesting job for anyone with any interest in history. In the past they’ve trained high school students (and adults) to do oral histories.</p>
<p>A lot of my younger son’s friends work the beach clubs in the summer. One of them digs graves.</p>
<p>Jobs are extremely hard to come by in my area, and summer jobs are especially tough to find.</p>
<p>So is it really as easy to volunteer in your area as you all make it sound? At the two nearby hospitals there is a year waiting list to volunteer and one must meet other requirements, which include passing a test on hospital procedures which is only offered several times a year. There are so many prospective pre-med kids around here. For the local library, it’s the same. If you never participated in the pre-teen activities at the library, forget about being allowed to volunteer as a high school student. It’s too nice and convenient a spot to put in community service hours, so they have to have their requirements. Since schools and school organizations (like NHS) require community service hours, and students know colleges love to see sommunity service, frankly the local non-profits are inundated with volunteers. </p>
<p>I would assume an adult with practical skills, like carpentry, accounting or nursing, would be welcomed at many a place. College students, not so much. As for internships with non-profits, they also have an application and selection process. You can’t just offer to help and then they say “Great! Show up tomorrow!” Actually, one of the jobs D applied for and didn’t get was at a non-profit–her university would have paid her wages.</p>
<p>Very cool resource, sybbie. It will keep us busy for a while!! Thanks!</p>
<p>I do think jobs are coming back. Today, my son had an interview (P/T, min. wage) and he was pleased as punch that it went well. But, since he also had some emails to answer, I had to twist his arm to do those too. (Me: “if you don’t have a full time job, looking for a job is your job.” Him: “I know, I know. But I went on an interview and it went well. Can’t that be enough today!”) He was flipping out. Pacing, pacing, pacing. You don’t know his challenges. You don’t know how much he wants a job, but at the same time, his stress level goes onto overload if he has too much going on, and meeting people is top of that stress.</p>
<p>For goodness sake,
The kid has Asperger’s. I wish he did have a social life. You just don’t know how I worry.</p>
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</p>
<p>But no one has been talking about kids like your daughter. This thread is about these hypotheticals from the OP:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Grad A, degree in biology from MIT, chose to return home and do nothing each summer, On one occasion, has NEVER worked (not in high school nor in college), has not been able to find a job in her field that pays much more than minimum wage, has refused to even consider working in retail or waiting tables, does not want to go to grad school. </p></li>
<li><p>Grad B, degree in veterinary medicine, $150K in student debt, has NEVER worked with the exception of a high school job that only lasted 2 days. She walked off the job because she didn’t like the way a customer treated her, has not been able to find a vet job that pays a salary that she feels she deserves. </p></li>
</ul>
<p>I may be mistaken, but I don’t think other posters on this thread have offered up further specific examples of non-working students. The issue isn’t a kid who can’t find a job this particular summer, or a kid who opts to take one summer off to travel after a history of work in previous years. </p>
<p>I think the focus is more on the sense of entitlement of recent college grads who have never worked and now are unwilling to work at jobs that fall short of their lofty expectations – not kids that are more in the phase of being “in-between” jobs. </p>
<p>I’d note that my daughter took one summer during college to travel around Europe, following her semester abroad. No one is arguing that life should be all work and no play ever.</p>
<p>^Agreed that the subject in the OP is a little different, but you chose to include in your list of bad-attitude-“can’ts” some things I said about my D’s difficulties with the job search, as well as the comments of posters who agreed with me. Wasn’t trying to hijack the thread, but mentioned our experience to highlight that it is plenty hard to find a job and people need to be careful about judging people who haven’t succeeded as having serious character flaws.</p>
<p>limabeans, I was struggling to find the words that express my bafflement at the number of excuses made, from the start, in this thread. As well as some barbs about the OP, one or two cracks abaout unpaid internships, how adcoms and employers have burdensome expectations, etc. I wanted to say this: that, [until your post,] no one had said, my kid is struggling with other issues that make so much in his life a challenge; we’d be happy for him to focus on today and we’ll deal with tomorow when it comes. </p>
<p>No one had mentioned that, until you. I do understand that. And I wish your son and all the others in his situation the best.</p>
<p>I think calmom’s 2 recent posts summarize well. And, others that note that there are many legit ways to become engaged at a level that can go on the early resume. Times are tough and some vol work is competitive. Maybe you can’t get in at the hospital or the library. But religious and civic groups call for volunteers regularly. Pick an effort, stick with it, find some relevant responsibilities to carry. Make it a great paragraph on your resume, even if it wasn’t what you really wanted to do. Spin straw into gold. Let’s teach our kids a “glass half full” attitude.</p>
<p>Re post #152: I was talking about the “can’ts” as being a continuous pattern - maybe I should have said “can never”. Obviously there are times when life priorities shift. “I am too busy this week to look for a job” is not the same as “I don’t have time to look for a job while school is in session; I’ll wait until after I graduate to start.” And my point wasn’t so much that the slow starter is “lazy” - its that the slow starter was going to have been edged out by all of the other students who did start early. I’m talking pragmatics, not ethics: you can’t realistically expect to win the race if you are the last one out of the gate. </p>
<p>But I am also talking about a mind set. Everyone faces barriers and experiences set backs. But people respond in different ways. You posted a comment about it being difficult to volunteer – citing a local hospital with a year long waiting list. I am sure that is the case for those particular positions. But I guarantee you that there are many agencies and organizations seeking volunteers. The fact that there are some coveted volunteer slots at particular organizations is not a barrier to volunteering elsewhere. When I wanted to volunteer at the food bank, it was just a matter of getting on the phone and scheduling a time to come in. I’ve never been told “no” when I wanted to volunteer in a political campaign. And if transportation is a barrier, there is volunteer work that can be done from home (email & phone). Check out web sites like [VolunteerMatch</a> - Where Volunteering Begins](<a href=“http://www.volunteermatch.org%5DVolunteerMatch”>http://www.volunteermatch.org) – they currently have more than 4,000 listings under “virtual opportunities”. You might try also doing a zip code search from their home page for local opportunities – I don’t know where you live, but I did that for my area and there were all things that came up for agencies I hadn’t heard of or would not have thought of. Obviously some were looking for specialized skills, but I also saw things that I know are pretty much open to anyone willing to show up.</p>
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<p>“Why work if you don’t have to” may apply to more people than we think. Jobs have been offshored to those that have to work.</p>
<p>Re: volunteering. Some consideration should be given to volunteering in low income neighborhoods. D has had some luck in reaching out to a church in a low income neighborhood that does a lot of community outreach. She called and asked what do you need? She has been able to participate in neighborhood clean ups, food and clothing drives, and soup kitchen work. It is in a rough neighborhood and I wouldn’t want her alone there, but we drive her, and there is responsible adult supervision. I think it has been helpful in teaching her how truly blessed she is, and in teaching that we have a responsibility to help others. </p>
<p>I think hospital and library type volunteer positions are always gonig to be harder to come by. The work is probably more pleasant.</p>
<p>Just a thought. I think there are volunteer positions everywhere, some are just not in the most glamorous of places.</p>
<p>Just looked at the list for our zip code. There are many opportunities related to animals, so anyone in the vet field should be able to keep very busy!</p>
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</p>
<p>I’d add in “the humane society” to that list, too.</p>
<p>On the other hand - I know that my church, for example, would love to have some volunteers to help with its commitment to local soup kitchens and Habitat for Humanity. And you don’t have to be a Christian or any kind of believer to help out. </p>
<p>I live in a high-unemployment state, although I do think there are signs that summer employment is coming back. That being said, I can think of many local agencies that are hurting for good volunteer help, including an organization that does summer tutoring for at-risk kids and a literacy group that helps adults learn to read. They’re not as high-profile as the library or the hosptial, but they do great work and they always need help.</p>
<p>Guess what? Free advice from strangers on the internet is take it or leave it. I don’t think anyone here is being mean spirited- far from it, there have been practical suggestions on things a college kid can do during the summer if one of those very rare “prestige” type internships doesn’t materialize. Moreover, parents have volunteered stories from their own experience and again, take it or leave it as being relevant to your own situations.</p>
<p>But teenagers are very literal. If someone tells them “you must get a paid internship during the summer” their takeaway is two fold- 1- it must be paid and 2- it must be called an internship. I’ve been recruiting and hiring new grads, new MBA’s, senior management talent, technical talent, and creatives for over 25 years. I cannot recall a single instance where someone was shut out of a job for lack of the words “Paid Intern” on their resume.</p>
<p>If nobody is hiring, and I realize that in some parts of the country nobody is… than surely a kid with skills- any skills- can find an organization or group that needs him or her. To the athletes- your town doesn’t have a Boys Club/Girls Club? Ours does, and it always needs coaches and “role models” to show their participants that you can be good in athletics and still have a brain and make it to college. To the artists- your community doesn’t have a single nursing home or assisted living facility? if it does, walk in and volunteer to lead a painting class, put together an art appreciation discussion group, create a Friday Music Society where you play two pieces and then lead the discussion. To those interested in politics- well, if you can’t figure out that the two things most in demand during an election year is registered voters and passionate volunteers then you haven’t learned much in college yet. Show up at Town Hall (or whatever they call your local government office), present yourself at the voter registration office, and get sworn in as a temporary registrar (I do it every four years.) Set up a card table at the beach, the mall, wherever 20 somethings in your community hang out and register new voters.</p>
<p>Voila. you’ve helped society. You’ve helped yourself by showing initiative and energy. You’ve probably learned something. And even if your day job is dog walking or basement cleaning or baby-sitting, you’ve got something to talk about next year during a job interview.</p>
<p>We’re trying to help. Take the advice that’s useful given your kids situation and ignore everything else. But to resent the free advice? Particularly when it’s coming from people whose kids have also been in your kids shoes and have managed to find something productive to do despite the crappy economy? That I don’t get.</p>
<p>If your local hospital and library are full up with volunteers, go down the food chain. I can’t believe that anyone lives in a community so affluent that there isn’t a single unmet need. Food pantry, homeless shelter, bone marrow registry, organ donor awareness, a single mom who needs her kids entertained while she’s getting dialysis, an elderly person who needs help reading food labels at the grocery store, a religious organization who needs someone to organize and produce its monthly newsletter- you’re going to tell me that there are year long waiting lists to do all these things???</p>
<p>The advice is appreciated, not resented, and in fact I’m still poring over the resources offered. Thanks to all! What is resented are the assumptions of bad attitudes and lack of initiative and effort-- directed toward some kids who not only have already worked harder than the vast majority of their peers and have the accomplishments to show for it, but who have also put a lot of effort into their job search with no results. My D, for example, contacted her soccer coach from when she was 9 who moved away from town 10 years ago, as well as her little sister’s former Brownie leader whom she never actually met and none of us have seen in 5 years, and all sorts of people who she thought might be able to help. I’m glad these methods worked out for your kids. </p>
<p>As for volunteering, I think it’s great period, and an excellent mid to long-term strategy for gaining some valuable work experience. It is unlikely to help her pay her fall tuition bill, however.</p>