<p>I would like to add in my 2 cents about finding jobs as a student. </p>
<p>I live in a hard hit area (Michigan). There are currently 4 VACANT positions where I work at one job (within driving distance and fairly quick even public transport distance from my university) and 2 at the other (granted, the later is work-study so it’s not open to everyone). The former pays nearly double minimum wage and yet no one is applying. The other one people are applying to (because it’s on my school’s website) and nearly 90% of people that apply stop responding to my boss’ emails after she says that we require people to work summers and some holidays (it’s a 24/7 shelter… it doesn’t close because you’re out of school…). The other never attracts any applicants because it doesn’t show up on any of the easy job search sites… it’s only on the state of Michigan page. However, it’s a great job. Employer-matched contribution to a 401k, great pay, etc. </p>
<p>IMHO, there ARE jobs in many places (maybe not small towns… but definitely in some major cities) but many students just don’t want to take them. I have a good friend who is a campaign manager on a state rep’s campaign and he is begging people to come work paid, entry-level positions. No takers because it’s minimum wage. Then I see all the time on facebook “I need a jobbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb”, so I send them links to apply for open positions and they don’t follow up. </p>
<p>Quite frankly, I think it’s dumb for people to graduate in this economy with absolutely no work or internship experience and I have very little sympathy for these people when they can’t find work after college. I am a great exception to the not-finding-work crowd considering I got a call back from every single job and internship I applied to this past summer, but I truly believe I got those call backs because I had a work history (I’ve worked since I was 16). You have to start somewhere! And yes, I understand that there are places without jobs (I grew up in the Detroit area, like kelsmom, and I know how difficult it is around there… truly, I do) but I don’t think they’re nearly as common as many people make them out to be.</p>
<p>ETA: Also, I’m not talking about specific students that “try really hard” and still get nothing… I’m just talking about students in my generation as a whole. There will ALWAYS be exceptions, but again, I do believe that many who say they’re “trying really hard” aren’t really trying all that hard or aren’t nearly as flexible as they need to be.</p>
<p>It’s great to get a student’s perspective on this issue.</p>
<p><< Quite frankly, I think it’s dumb for people to graduate in this economy with absolutely no work or internship experience and I have very little sympathy for these people when they can’t find work after college.</p>
<p>Also, I’m not talking about specific students that “try really hard” and still get nothing… I’m just talking about students in my generation as a whole. There will ALWAYS be exceptions, but again, I do believe that many who say they’re “trying really hard” aren’t really trying all that hard or aren’t nearly as flexible as they need to be. >></p>
<p>That’s the point I brought up when I started this thread. As expected, some people felt I was being too judgmental.</p>
<p>My daughter is taking a gap year between hs and college. Except for a seasonal job at Christmas, she hadn’t worked for most of the year, and was mostly sleeping and playing on her computer. Just telling her to look for a job wasn’t working (always some excuse ) and we weren’t ready to actually throw her out on her own. But someone suggested we try this, and it really worked: we told her she needed to get a job ASAP, and until she found one, we were going to make a list of chores for her to do around the house each day. Then I made up a list that included regular housework plus things like scrubbing the porch with a brush, washing windows, removing wallpaper, etc. She did find a job about a month after the chores started, and the funny thing is that the chores didn’t motivate her exactly how we thought they would. We thought she’d probably rather have a job than do housework, but really, she just needed something to make her get out of bed every day. Once she was up and about, she did go out and really look for something. (By the way, she has to ride the bus, so not having a car didn’t work as an excuse.) This is the reason we wanted her to take a year off, so she could mature and get some life experience. Too bad it’s already May!</p>
<p>Re post #159: I nominate Blossom for the title of “Expert Volunteer Consultant Extraordinaire”. I am awed by the number of specific suggestions she has provided in this thread for volunteering.</p>
<p>Agreed. But if the choice is volunteering vs. doing nothing, then doing nothing doesn’t pay fall tuition bills either. </p>
<p>I would point out that a person who is out of the house doing volunteering is also networking with other adults, and is more likely to hear of opportunities to earn money, if only for odd jobs. Certainly it would be worthwhile to let it be known that the young person is also willing and available to do just about anything for pay. It’s very possible that other adult volunteers, or the people who coordinate the volunteers, may be looking for babysitters, errand-runners, etc. </p>
<p>I wouldn’t suggest volunteering primarily for the networking opportunity as it may not bear fruit – but I don’t think it should be disregarded or discounted. You can’t meet new people while sitting at home on the couch. If you go to a location where there are many adult volunteers, you may meet a lot of people.</p>
<p>In this area, there are jobs available, but many are not the kind of work that kids who really don’t need to work want to do. My son’s friends, those who don’t have summer jobs, and their moms, moan each year about the lack of jobs. Every time I give them a list of suggestions, there are reasons why they can’t take the work. Basically, it’s because it isn’t worth it for them and the parents are complicit with this. This year, one mom is complaining already that her son won’t be able to find a job because they are going to Rome this summer and he is then taking a class and, oh, he has to get back early to school. Well, who the heck is going to want to hire such a kid? Throw in a desire for a “status” job and, yes, there are a lot of unemployed kids here.</p>
<p>Not saying this is the case everywhere. I know of areas where paid work is hard to come by for anyone and everyone.</p>
<p>I agree that there are kids and parents like this. I was talking to a friend about my D’s job search, and that she planned to check the local warehouses next to see if they were hiring summer help. The friend was appalled at the thought of D working there. Why? Dirt? It reminded me of one summer in high school when I was pounding the pavement looking for summer work. A meat packing plant was hiring, so I went there. My friends thought I was nuts. The guy explained to me about the conditions in the plant and what the work entailed, and I said that I was aware of the nature of the work and still wanted the job. He wouldn’t hire me, though! He thought a girl wouldn’t stick it out.</p>
<p>Some college grads we know who have eventually gotten and excelled at jobs in their fields (mainly quantitative fields) were not very successful at either obtaining or keeping entry level jobs that did not draw upon their academic strengths and successes.</p>
<p>I know several who got fired after they could not work quickly or accurately enough at jobs involving manual labor, manual dexterity, extensive multitasking, or excellent social skills (from washing dishes to retail sales to babysitting), whereas others with far less education were successful at these. I also know several individuals who have been very successful as professionals (including some doctors, lawyers, engineers, and college professors) whom I never would have hired to paint my house, clean my garage, or babysit for young children because they would have been totally incompetent at these tasks.</p>
<p>Telling a young college grad to go out and get a restaurant job, or a substitute teaching job, etc. is not always as feasible as we might like. When my own children were younger I was very selective in who I hired to babysit, for example, even if they were willing to watch my children for very little money. And once fired from a job, this will need to be explained on every subsequent application.</p>
<p>And also, some of these jobs are not so easy to get, either, because in these times lots of people of all ages need the money, and some who might have hired others to do these things a few years back are reluctant to spend money and doing chores themselves. Frazzled S found it relaxing to do these types of odd jobs when they came up, but found it easier to get hired to do lab work.</p>
<p>What was the TV show where CEO’s disguised themselves as ordinary lower level employees of their own companies, in order to see what really goes on and make better decisions? In one episode the boss was almost fired by the supervisor for being too slow at a manual labor position, which apparently took more skill than one might think.</p>
<p>Undercover Boss.
But. let’s not let the stories of failure prevent kids from trying.<br>
Those episode are carefully crafted, btw, or they wouldn’t be interesting.</p>
<ol>
<li>Underestimate the difficulty for many to find a paid activity during the summers</li>
<li>Underestimate the numbers of students who might not be able to accept an unpaid position during the summer</li>
<li>Overestimate the value of “experience” gained by volunteering or working at charitable institutions at the time one looks for a real job after graduation. </li>
<li>Refuse to accept that things are not as good as they were a while ago.</li>
</ol>
<p>I also think that many are taking this discussion to the extreme by pitting the kids who DO NOT WANT to accept menial jobs (or any jobs for that matter) against anyone who can see the value of gaining experience and/or money through early activities. There is a lot of grey areas between those two, with plenty of students who would cherish the opportunities if available. </p>
<p>Since a poster previously stated “It’s great to get a student’s perspective on this issue” I could add plenty of perspectives from students who graduated between 2008 and 2011! By the time I graduated I had to TRIM down my HS and college activities to fit on one page! Not surprisingly since I started volunteering and working as a freshman in HS. Serving soup to homeless, volunteering at the local hospital, building homes and schools, coaching youth soccer, maintaining networks during evening and nights, and organizing SAT boot camps in the US and Mexico? Done all of that! However, it was not that hard or unusual considering my parents’ involvement and the school I attended. Not doing most of that was simply not an option. I also have to add that my younger sister had a MUCH thicker "r</p>
<p>Parenting. Some of us don’t think “love” equates with neglect. </p>
<p>The mom in post #164 who drew up the chore list for her daughter was doing a good job as a parent and showing love. She provided her daughter with the motivation and impetus to move forward with her life.</p>
<p>Sometimes even the best of parenting still leaves a parent with a kid who drops out of school, bums around, has a kid and then hopefully, eventually gets on track. Sometimes there are other factors at play.</p>
<p>Again, the topic of this thread, as presented by the OP was:
</p>
<p>The fact that some kids are unsuccessful in life despite the best efforts of their parents is not a reason that other parents should give up trying.</p>
<p>I do think work ethic is something instilled early in life by example as well as setting of parental expectations, just like other values. That doesn’t mean that it works as expected in all case… but kids who grow up seeing the connection between work and getting what they want have a model to follow. </p>
<p>The part that the OP left out of her post, perhaps because she doesn’t know the answer, is what, if anything, the young women described it the opening post are expected to do to contribute to the households where they live. OP wrote, as to both, “she sits at home with no plans for the future.” I don’t know if that is literal, in the sense of “sits” in front of the t.v., computer, on the phone, etc., doing nothing… or that is more metaphorical. I mean, if these young women are doing household chores, tending to younger siblings, preparing meals, doing the household shopping while their own mothers work… perhaps it is a different situation.</p>
<p>I’d also note that there was no indication that either unemployed graduate had any mental or physical disability that would make it unreasonable for their parent to expect that they look for employment.</p>
<p>And again, regardless of whatever premise was presented in the OP, bolding it doesn’t change the fact that there CAN BE OTHER FACTORS THAT CAN COME INTO PLAY. There are plenty of kids who were either spoiled or expected to focus on academics and EC’s rather than a “job”, but who develop a perfectly fine work ethic, and those who have worked since they were 12 but who, for example, fall apart at school or decide to take a work holiday after college and (stealing this expression from another cc’er) "keep the couch from levitating "(love it). Time to think outside the box.</p>
<p>Well, evidence of all of those other factors would have to come from the OP. Her post didn’t suggest any, and she said that the mothers of the two young women were “very frustrated”. If other factors were at work, I would expect that the mothers would more likely be “defensive”.</p>
<p>Thanks for weighing in, xiggi. To second what you said, the career counseling office advised my D to remove the jobs older than 2 years on her resume, which were much better-than-average teen jobs. Therefore, it made no sense to include her current menial campus job on the resume, given that it is of even lower caliber (food service-related) and actually detracts from the otherwise professional picture her resume paints. Doing that job shows responsibility, good work ethic, and no doubt all the other admirable qualities posters attribute to those who accept the kind of work the pampered and entitled kids don’t want to take. Yet potential employers won’t ever know she does it.</p>
<p>LOL- since when are we limited to positing theories that stay only within the confines of the second hand synopsis of some students in a post from several days ago and almost 200 posts ago? There is no need to demand ** evidence** when a snipit of a real or fabricated scenario is presented for discussion.</p>
<p>I myself have been wondering whether depression is playing into the picture of the grads mentioned by OP. That is something that even a parent might be missing, but it would be my first concern if one of frazzled kids were to be living here without a job or class or volunteer activity.</p>