Graduating undergrad school in two years a good or bad idea?

Parents Forum
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<p>My dad is a professor at Pfeiffer University, where I have thus been taking taking college courses for free. I am still a senior in high school. By the time I finish high school, it is very likely I will have 3-4 semesters worth of college credit in subject areas that will transfer almost everywhere (mostly general ed courses). I can quite easily graduate college two years after I graduate high school. Here's my question: should I? I am planning to pursue graduate study afterward; someone told me that graduating in two years would be a bad idea for graduate study because research opportunities would be lost. I do not know much about the whole undergraduate research scenario (I thought research was only a component of grad school) so if someone could please explain, it would be greatly appreciated.</p>

<p>So what do you think? Graduate in two years, or stay for three to four years? And why?</p>

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<p>some colleges will have a criteria that a certain number of credits must be given by that institution so you would need to check each colleges rules.</p>

<p>regarding research as an undergrad, again may depend on the school or program. My S2 has been doing research since first semester of freshman year. He is doing 2 degrees both honors and must present 2 thesis(s) sp? based on 2 years of research. one in biology and one in chemistry, so he will be doing research every semester of undergrad. Alot of graduate programs also want to see you have done research as an undergrad.</p>

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<p>On the other thread you talked about getting a computer science degree. Do your research for the particular college you plan to attend but you’ll likely find all of those courses you’ve already taken may not knock as much time off as you think depending on what you took due to the large number of technical courses required that have prereqs and are sequential.</p>

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<p>The only reason I can think to do it would be for financial reasons. But then you could stay at the free school if that was an issue.</p>

<p>College is so much more than the piece of paper. It’s too much to explain in a post but maybe others will bother. </p>

<p>As with all things grad school, it depends on field and school and even department. From my own experience, someone with just two years of college experience (not referring to ‘credits’) would find it hard to get into a good grad school in my field (but I’m referring to one oriented toward a PhD, I don’t mean a terminal professional degree and we are trying to produce the next scholars not the next folks in industry with a PhD). The reason? It’s unlikely you’d have enough research experience and relationships with professors that are necessary for admissions to our graduate programs. We might question your maturity, your understanding of what you are getting into and your ability to stick with it. We might be likely to think you view education as rungs to climb, boxes to check, with a ‘collect the set’ instrumental mentality and not a lot of intellectual curiosity and love for learning for its own sake (which is important if you are going to expect people to pay for your degree and invest heavily in you for quite a few years, in the hopes you become a successful academic).</p>

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<p>How much research, parent56? Will the two years be a sufficient amount or do you think I’ll need more to be competitive?</p>

<p>ucsd<em>ucla</em>dad, I’ve already checked the graduation requirements at both schools. The courses I have already taken will transfer to either, and the courses I will take this spring won’t be set in stone until after I decide which college I will be attending after high school graduation. Prereqs may be a problem though; haven’t looked fully into that yet.</p>

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<p>Two years of research is enough.</p>

<p>The question is whether you will be considered prepared to undertake research before you take any upper-division courses in your intended field. It’s highly unlikely that you’re going to be able to walk into the program and begin undergraduate research the day you get there. You will not have had a chance to get to know professors, build relationships, develop specific research interests and show yourself ready for research.</p>

<p>If I were you, I would plan on a three-year program for an undergraduate degree.</p>

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<p>to be honest with you twneal… i dont know very much about computer science so not sure what a graduate program would be looking for, but i would think 2 would be enough, one of my son’s friends is doing comp sci and i think he has plans for about 2 years research. I would also say, especially in your case with reduced tuition and transfer credits, why not take some time and explore some other things… you have time, enjoy college!</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, if I go to UNC or NCSU (where the prestigious Comp Sci programs reside), I will not get reduced tuition. Therefore, if I decided to go to school for more than two years I would probably go to a school where I get free tuition from the tuition exchange program.</p>

<p>So it looks like I have a decision to make: take my time at some hardly known college without a well-known CS program and get a four year undergrad experience with multiple majors, or get a CS degree in two years from a prestigious CS program and have student loans to pay off. Hmmm…</p>

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<p>I’m of two minds on this. The first? Ask yourself if you consider these years something to simply rush through and get over with on the way to a lifetime of work. I hope they’re not. And, fwiw, not matter how quickly you get through school, your brain isn’t going to mature any faster. To a certain extent, your youthful indescretions are better committed as an undergrad!</p>

<p>My other mind thinks that, expensive as college is, cutting it short is a definite advantage. Less debt, more for grad school. </p>

<p>And then all planning may be for naught anyway. Not all schools will accept college credit for courses taken before your graduated from high school, whether or not the classes are on your hs transcript. Some will take only limited transfer credit. You may find you want a different major and the sequencing means there’s no way to rush through in two. My own d started with enough credits to be a sophomore. Then, she switched majors, and not only won’t she finish early, she’ll have to enroll in summer school to catch up on a class she needs for the year 2 sequence. </p>

<p>Much as we like to plan things out, sometimes life messes up the maps we made.</p>

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<p>TWNeal are you a NC resident?</p>

<p>If so than you qualify for in-state tuition. If not both UNC and NCSU are capped at 18% for out-of-state students.</p>

<p>While NCSU for OOS is not as competitve to get into as UNC it is still capped at 18%, and the comp sci dept. I think, is in the school of engineering and that has different requirements than many of the other colleges within NCSU.</p>

<p>Son just graduated from NCSU, and is at UNC for grad school. If I can help let me know.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>You only get one chance to enjoy the carefree days of being an undergraduate student. My son could graduate in 3 years, however he wants to do a four year plan. </p>

<p>Take your time and enjoy this time learning about yourself.</p>

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<p>Sorry for the confusion… I am an NC resident, and will have reduced tuition in that regard. When I said I would not receive reduced tuition at the two schools, I was referring to tuition exchange scholarships, which are full tuition+ scholarships that are offered to dependent sons and daughters of professors at the University at which my father is employed. ( [Tuition</a> Exchange| Career Institution| College Tuition Exchange Program](<a href=“http://www.tuitionexchange.org/]Tuition”>http://www.tuitionexchange.org/) )</p>

<p>Deciding whether to stay four years or get it done quickly is a difficult decision. I am going to grad school immediately after UG so hopefully I wouldn’t be losing too much of the college experience if I only went two years…hopefully.</p>

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<p>Keep in mind that in many fields there are prerequisites and course sequences to be followed - I had a ton of transfer credit (from BS Engineering to BS CompSci 2nd undergrad degree) and still took 2 years and 2 summers, and it was not very easy. </p>

<p>If you have the general ed stuff out of the way, you’re facing an uphill battle because whereas your classmates will have 2-3 major classes a semester you will have 5+. Try taking 3 senior level Comp Sci classes in the summer (long summer, 9 credit hours). Not fun.</p>

<p>In essence, take a look at [Suggested</a> Program of Study for the Bachelor of Arts in Computer Science ? Department of Computer Science](<a href=“http://www.cs.unc.edu/cms/academics/undergraduate-programs/suggested-program-of-study-BA]Suggested”>http://www.cs.unc.edu/cms/academics/undergraduate-programs/suggested-program-of-study-BA) and see if you could even take the Comp Sci part of the program while following any prerequisites or corequisites. Then, ask yourself if it is physically possible to take four or five comp sci classes in one semester.</p>

<p>I’ve done it, but at an ‘easier’ school 30 years ago :-).</p>

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<p>Of course, that is the reverse of the choice you really want, since the tuition exchange schools you mentioned in the other thread have inadequate CS departments (never mind the prestige) and you would probably exhaust the course offerings there in four semesters, while the four year schools with good CS departments (including UNC and NCSU, but also AppState, NC A&T, etc.) cost more and would likely need five or six semesters to take all of the desirable CS major courses.</p>

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<p>^^ Adding to turbo’s point - a lot of CS courses are difficult and require a lot of work and the grading curves can be harsh. Taking a lot of them all at once can be a GPA killer and contribute mightily to burnout assuming you can even get al the courses within the same timeframes. In some classes, in addition to the regular HW you’ll have in higher level math, physics, and CS courses, figure on spending 20-30 or more hours per week writing programs or doing labs and that can be per course. You can’t glom them all together to just do your time and knock them out. These CS courses will likely be more difficult than any course you’ve had to date.</p>

<p>If your GPA suffers much due to trying to take a lot of difficult courses it’ll lower your chances of getting into the some of the grad schools you plan to get into and could even hurt your employment opportunities if it’s low enough. </p>

<p>You may be a math wizard and a CS wizard as well and manage to do it all without the hit but you might find it a lot more difficult than you imagine.</p>

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<p>The other question is, must you stay in North Carolina? There are other tuition exchange schools with fuller CS degree programs in other states, although some may be competitive to get the tuition exchange scholarship, and some may not cover full tuition (e.g. University of Southern California give 80% of tuition to 20 to 25 students out of about 175 who apply for tuition exchange each year; University of Pittsburgh gives full tuition to 10% to 40% of tuition exchange applicants).</p>

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<p>Apologies if I’m misunderstanding but if you are a NC resident, then tuition is about $7k a year? And if your parent is a professor at Pfeiffer is it possible you could live at home and commute, then the cost is either $7 or $14k for the extra years? Can your parents pick up the tab (as a professor it seems this might not be too unrealistic). Or would you really have to incur debt? I’m just trying to think around the obstacles rather than see it as an either/or choice. </p>

<p>The reason why is I really think you should look at taking longer. You will mature so much and get far far more out of your undergrad experience than just credits. It just seems a shame to rush through it so if money weren’t an issue I would think this would be worthwhile.</p>

<p>Also what are you looking for in graduate school? Is it to get a masters to boost your job prospects? Or to pursue a PhD? </p>

<p>When it comes to research experience, it isn’t the case of checking a box, “yup she did that, check!”. It’s also not about length. But about quality, which will be correlated with time. It takes time to find who you want to work with, what area you want to work in, and who will take you on. It takes time to learn the ropes in research and be given increasing responsibilities from demonstrating your abilities. </p>

<p>Quality of research experience varies tremendously but will make a big difference. At some schools or programs it won’t matter much; in some it will matter a lot. But a rule of thumb would be more important if hoping for a PhD (vs a terminal masters), mroe important in really competitive fields where everyone wants to go to graduate school, more important at high prestige research places. </p>

<p>It isn’t whether you say ‘you did it’ but rather what it involved. Quality of research experience. In the ideal fantasy world (not at all necessary but at one end of the continuum just to illustrate quality at the extreme end even though its rare) you end up with a a) publication in a b) well known journal with a c) famous professor (publications can take several years) at d) famous school, who says e) you walk on water, best student she or he has ever worked with. See fantasy. So not going to happen to anyone, but it anchors things a bit. Now you can move down the scale. </p>

<p>Maybe you don’t coauthor on a top publication but you publish in a lesser known B journal. Or an unknown journal. Or just a conference paper. Or just a working paper but you are still author. Or maybe you just get listed in the acknowledgements, a thank you for helping out in technical ways but you aren’t an author.</p>

<p>Maybe its not a famous person but a less famous person or a brand new faculty member or someone no one has heard of. Maybe they don’t even publish research. Maybe its not a well known school either. </p>

<p>Maybe you don’t get a wow best ever student I’ve ever worked with, but instead a really great person you must consider them, or just a well she or he was always on time sort of letter (though I rarely see those). </p>

<p>I realize this sounds overly simplistic, but I’m just trying to give you an example of what it means to get ‘research experience’ and how what that involves can take quite a bit of time to move up the quality ladder.</p>

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<p>My D is a fresh this year and in the same boat. She is convinced she wants to do BA in 2 yrs and start an MA at the same school assuming she can get in. Her goal is only for a professional degree MA not a PhD. She feels 4 yrs at the same Univ. with her peer group is similar to 4 yrs doing undergrad. I keep telling her to take her time. Next semester she has three classes in her major. I will keep you posted on how it works out for her.</p>

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<p>The thing is, it won’t be with her “peer group” for more than a year or so. She will quickly bypass her direct peers and by the time she’s working on her MA, her classes will be with a different student cohort with an entirely different focus.</p>