Greek Letters at a Price

Parents Forum
61

<p>“Unlike selective college admissions, orchestra, soccer team, or academic honor societies like Phi Beta Kappa, the main perception is that fraternities/sororities and social clubs of that ilk select mainly on the basis of one’s higher SES status and one’s family/social connections both of which were more the product of being lucky in a genetic lottery.”</p>

<p>But so what that these are the “perceptions” of unknowledgeable people? Their “perceptions” aren’t fact. </p>

<p>I certainly hope that you correct these people with the truth of what twoinanddone, FallGirl, and others on this thread report - that they were middle class, not wealthy, not “connected”, got in, and enjoyed their time there. </p>

<p>And, of course, “family/social connections” had nothing to do with anything outside some of the southern systems, because we were all from all over the country anyway and meeting one another for the first time. What our families did back in our home towns was of no consequence to anything. </p>

<p>Of course, you’re correcting their misperceptions. </p>

62

<p>I don’t think it is necessarily slamming sororities to say they are exclusionary. As Sally points out, they just are. You are part of your individual sorority and your sorority is part of a larger group, national. It is in many ways a privileged kind of group, regardless of how group members are selected. Like HYP, sororities can confer networking advantages not necessarily available to those outside the group. On the first page, I posted counter examples to the sorority stereotypes of the OP article. All the women I described came from privileged backgrounds. They probably didn’t need sorority networks, though they made use of them. I can certainly believe there are sorority women, from not-so-privileged backgrounds, positively impacted by sorority networks and that would seem to me a very good thing.</p>

<p>On a different thread, I wrote about getting state flagship tee shirts and wearing them to fit into my local community. I wear them to show I’m part of a group. I don’t think I’m distancing myself from others by wearing that shirt (except perhaps the local sports rival) If I wear a sorority tee shirt, it can mean all kinds of things. What I mean by it may not be what someone else reads into it. If I wear one to join my sister-in-law in celebrating her daughter’s bid into our house, it’s because I want to be part of a family group, our sorority group, the entirety of sorority women. It is a show of solidarity. I could wear one all over town, as a statement of pride in my sorority (or because I haven’t gotten around to laundry) but I’m not going to do that. I am comfortable wearing the flagship tees all over town. I’m not wearing the kids elite U tees all over town. I am over thinking all this. ; )</p>

<p>Cardinal Fang: my sorority cost more than my tuition. They expect annual dues and donations in perpetuity. I am trying to decide about donating to the cost of building/renovating a house for my group at a school I didn’t attend. Usually I give to different causes. Thinking about how things are changing at Alabama and whether it impacts the “machine” makes me rethink sorority financial support. </p>

63

<h1>58 *And of course the article doesn’t touch on the Greek networks that populate certain sectors on the economy–like the pipeline from the fraternity system at Dartmouth into Wall Street. I guess that’s “different” somehow? *</h1>

<h1>60 And, of course, “family/social connections” had nothing to do with anything outside some of the southern systems, because we were all from all over the country anyway and meeting one another for the first time. What our families did back in our home towns was of no consequence to anything.</h1>

<p>They are a bastion of privilege or they aren’t. Maybe you don’t come from privilege but you access it by joining? It seems to me a very good thing when elite colleges admit those from non-privileged backgrounds, the same for sororities. But Cardinal Fang makes an excellent point in asking “what does it cost”? I have read some articles talking about sorority “scholarships” and this might be an interesting rebuttal to accusations of elitism.</p>

64

<p>CF - part of why you’re not getting the answer you want is that it differs so much from school to school. </p>

<p>I’m going to speak from my experience, but since Sally and I were in the same school, pretty much everything I say should apply to her experience too and she will chime in if I’m incorrect.<br>
For sake of simplicity, assume the chapters contain 140 girls - 35 per class. </p>

<p>Housing:
We were in a system where the physical houses were on university property, built next to and designed to blend into the dorms. The university owns the houses but leases them out to each chapter,s house corporation. The utilities run through the university, thus taking advantage of university infrastructure, maintenance, and any preferential rates. There is little outside maintenance because the sidewalks and green space fall under university landscaping. Changes made (such as handicapped access ramps to be ADA compliant) may involve charge backs, but they are part of an overall university plan. </p>

<p>The financials of this arrangements are COMPLETELY different from a system in which chapters own or lease their own homes, from private landlords, on private lands not connected with the university. Their utilities situation may be different. They have to do or contract for their own outdoor maintenance and landscaping. </p>

<p>Food:
In our system, typically only girls who lived in ate their meal plans there. But then you had an extra 100 girls for dinner once a week, and you have to stock the kitchen to allow for girls to drop by and have access to PBJ or whatever when they are in the house studying or hanging out. That costs money. Let’s say the cost of chapter dinner is $10 per girl. Well, the 100 “extra” girls every week account for $1,000 times, say, 30 weeks over the school year. </p>

<p>Housemother:
I truly have no idea what they make, but let’s say it’s $30.000 a year plus room and board. Well, their salary and benefits needs to come from somewhere. </p>

<p>Events:<br>
Programming cost money. Since we were on a quarter system, we had three major events - a dance or outing every quarter. They were often in hotel ballrooms or similar venues. These ballrooms, band/DJ, etc don’t rent themselves. Even “simpler” things like barn dances or Six Flags trips cost. Events for 140 people cost money, unless everyone just goes into a field and runs around. Different systems may account for this in different ways. I seem to recall we did get charged for events (which made sense - you were in essence buying tickets to a dance) but it’s quite possible x% was subsidized by the house to keep ticket prices low. </p>

<p>I don’t remember what I paid, and tbh I don’t really know what we pay for our son, as the payment is run through the university and appears as a line item on his tuition bill. </p>

<p>But we had plenty of girls from middle class backgrounds, plenty of girls who worked work-study jobs and had student loans. </p>

65

<p>What ever happened to well researched, objective journalism? The figures published are on the very high end - high profile sororities at big schools. The author doesn’t bother to provide national averages, or a range of fees. At many schools where the sororities don’t provide meals or housing (which as others have mentioned are often cheaper than dorms and the school meal plan), the dues are closer to $500 a semester and girls don’t go overboard on gifts for their Littles. </p>

<p>What bothers me most about the article is the underlying portrayal of these women as mindless Barbies and the suggestion that sororities undercut academics. I guess it wasn’t sensational enough to address the benefits of being in a sorority, or interview sorority members at a school like MIT. The author fails to mention that sorority members usually have higher GPAs, raise money for charities, and are encouraged to participate in other campus organizations. Nor does she mention any of the numerous sorority members who are, or have been, Governors, Senators, judges, prominent doctors, scientists, CEOs, anchor women, suffrage activists, authors, actresses, designers, pioneers in their fields, etc. Google any of the national sororities and view their notable alumnae. The lists are impressive. Amazing these women have been so successful having devoted so much of their time to pomping! </p>

66

<p>OTOH maybe, like Sally and me, they just skipped the pomping.</p>

67

<p>IMO, one of the biggest “status markers” for a house is precisely that their members are leaders in other campus extracurricular activities. </p>

<p>Houses WANT to be able to boast that their members are leaders in student government, write for the newspaper, hold the lead in the play, sing in the chorus, play a sport, get elected to honor societies, become president of the engineering club, etc. They encourage and support these things. They take out ads in the school newspaper congratulating their members on their accomplishments. For performing arts, they show up to cheer the member on. </p>

<p>My S was the president of an organization that brought certain speakers to campus. His brothers would talk up the events and show up to make sure the seats were filled and the event was well attended, even if they had less interest in the topic. I think that’s nice and evidence of good character, not bad. </p>

<p>Except in Animal House, there’s no social status in being the house where all the members just hang around one another and don’t engage with the rest of the campus. </p>

68

<p>“Nor does she mention any of the numerous sorority members who are, or have been, Governors, Senators, judges, prominent doctors, scientists, CEOs, anchor women, suffrage activists”</p>

<p>I just have to smile at the last one since that’s where my house’s heritage comes from - a very well known suffrage activist whose home is a registered National Landmark and who was the first woman to have a statue of herself placed in the US Capitol rotunda. She was also active in the temperance movement, so I think she was kind of the antithesis of a party girl :slight_smile: </p>

69

<h1>66 - I agree. There is social status in being part of a group that holds campus power and networks for its members beyond campus and the college years. Alabama’s “machine” used to be an extreme example of this. The Dartmouth pipeline to Wall Street may be an example (I don’t know anything about this) It seems to me we are describing elitist organizations and cobrat is pretty much on target. People of good character participate in elitist institutions all the time. imho</h1>

70

<p>“They are a bastion of privilege or they aren’t. Maybe you don’t come from privilege but you access it by joining?”</p>

<p>I think this is where the north / south divide comes up again. </p>

<p>For me, and I dare say for Sally, it was a social club, that’s it. A way to make friends and make a campus smaller. There were no “corridors of power” being accessed. This isn’t Alabama and the machine that dominates Csmpus and town government. In my adult world, there is no special “privilege” to having been in sorority A over sorority B. No sane adult woman thinks she’s “better” for having been a Theta versus a Kappa. It’s just a fun factoid and a potential icebreaker were it to come up in a social situation. </p>

<p>It seems to have a very different and deeper meaning in the southern systems, where it has impact back in the small towns, where there is social privilege by whether you were in a house and what house it was. I think we do well to specify which system we mean when having these discussions. </p>

<p>I could have just as easily been a (Sally’s house) and she could have just as easily been a (my house). It’s just not how it all played out, but there’s no deeper import. </p>

71

<p>Personally, I don’t like the high costs involved with pledging and being an Active these days. When I pledged back in the stone age, my dues were $26 a month and we had some other small fees. We sewed our Active dresses…lol…and our white Pledge Presents dresses were off-the-rack and inexpensive. We traded dresses for various other formals.</p>

<p>However, I wouldn’t suggest that these girls graduate with no ambition and Mrs degrees. </p>

72

<p>“What I mean by it may not be what someone else reads into it. If I wear one to join my sister-in-law in celebrating her daughter’s bid into our house, it’s because I want to be part of a family group, our sorority group, the entirety of sorority women. It is a show of solidarity. I could wear one all over town, as a statement of pride in my sorority (or because I haven’t gotten around to laundry) but I’m not going to do that. I am comfortable wearing the flagship tees all over town. I’m not wearing the kids elite U tees all over town. I am over thinking all this. ; )”</p>

<p>Honestly, I think up here, it would look odd for an adult woman to wear a sorority t shirt, unless it was specifically for an event (like the local chapter here hosts a 5k and sells t shirts) or it was clear it was just serving the function of “stuff to work out in.” I don’t have any t-shirts or sweatshirts with that insignia, and haven’t since college. I do still have the mugs though :slight_smile: </p>

73

<p>Sally wrote: *And of course the article doesn’t touch on the Greek networks that populate certain sectors on the economy–like the pipeline from the fraternity system at Dartmouth into Wall Street. I guess that’s “different” somehow? *</p>

<p>You wrote: *A few years after I graduated, my company was going back to campus to make another hire. I had a sorority sister who I thought would be perfect, so I called her, told her to get on the schedule, and thoroughly prepped her on what to say. She got the job and it started a very successful career for her. She was a real star and I have absolutely no regrets over doing this and would do it all over again. *</p>

<p>This describes greek networking in the NE/midwest, privileging those involved in greek groups. And I think it definitely describes “corridors of power” being accessed. How is this different, except perhaps in degree, than the machine. Depending on what is up with “Greek networks that populate certain sectors on the economy” it may not be that much different. maybe it is. just a degree of difference?</p>

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<p>A huge degree of difference. There’s no pipeline from our Greek system to any industry, the way there is with Dartmouth frats (etc) to Wall Street. There was no benefit to me that another XYZ got the job, and the powers that be who interviewed her couldn’t have cared less that she was an XYZ. It was no different from if I’d helped any friend from any walk of my life. It just so happened this is how I knew her. </p>

<p>I don’t think networking is a bad thing, btw. I think it’s good to use contacts that you have. </p>

75

<p>I know nothing directly about sororities; the SUNY I attended 1000 years ago didn’t have them and they are not a big presence (as far as I know) where my daughter is a freshman.</p>

<p>But I have read here about the necessary letters of recommendation from alumna members of the national sorority that are required on some campuses for some sororities. I wonder where a totally unconnected young woman could possibly find alumnae to write letters for them. Someone here on CC (Pizzagirl?) said she writes them for girls she doesn’t know, but I wonder how common that is. </p>

76

<p>The Dartmouth frat thing is largely a mirage. Post 2008, nobody gets hired at a top tier investment bank, hedge fund, private equity firm, or commercial bank without having the qualifications. period full stop. The idea that someone’s alcoholic frat brother or idiot nephew is taking the place of someone who is actually qualified (over the bar in terms of quantitative skills, demonstrable skill and experience) is very outdated.</p>

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<p>I am not arguing that networks are a bad thing. All of life is some sort of network. I can agree it is good to use the contacts you have. You are describing how someone is advantaged by sorority contacts. You knew her because you were sorority sisters. You were using it as a positive example of sorority membership (I think) </p>

<p>I was reading both you and Sally as saying one advantage of sororities is the networking. Am I incorrect? If the networking is available to “any friend from any walk of my life” then maybe that isn’t a sorority advantage? Except maybe you wouldn’t have known those particular women except through sorority membership? </p>

78

<p>Oh god, anywhere. Just ask. </p>

<p>I’ve written them for patients of my husband, and coworkers’ friends’ kids. When my best friend’s daughter was going off to college and had some “missing” recs, I contacted past coworkers who I knew were Greek and asked if they’d write her a rec. You don’t need to know these people personally. It’s a silly formality that some schools take seriously. It takes 5 min to do, and if it helps out someone, why not.</p>

<p>What’s silly about it is that what matters is how the girls in the house and the girl in question hit it off. I can’t possibly see why the girls at my house’s chapter in Alabama would care about the opinion of me, a middle aged woman who hasn’t set foot in the state for years, over their actual live interaction with the girl; but what the heck. </p>

79

<p>Houses WANT to be able to boast that their members are leaders in student government, write for the newspaper, hold the lead in the play, sing in the chorus, play a sport, get elected to honor societies, become president of the engineering club, etc. They encourage and support these things. They take out ads in the school newspaper congratulating their members on their accomplishments. For performing arts, they show up to cheer the member on.</p>

<p>For me, and I dare say for Sally, it was a social club, that’s it. A way to make friends and make a campus smaller. There were no “corridors of power” being accessed.</p>

<p>It is a social club, a social club that increases its status by having members in important activities and positions. This does consolidate power in the group, if done successfully. Is consolidating power in the group a bad thing? I have no idea. </p>

80

<p>I don’t know what you mean by “power.” I don’t have any more “power” because my sister was (say) the lead in the school play. We might have had fun cheering her on, but there’s no “power” that accrued to us. </p>