PG, like a chokehold that is outlawed by a police department, the chant, was passed on by somebody more senior within the organization. That passage was then followed by either an implicit or explicit approval–this was certainly not the first time it has been uttered. Delusion, hardly. Again, the pronvincial apologist follows a dictum script: he/she first minimizes any problem, tacking back to a day of great embrace and nostalgia, and then marginalizing anyone or anything that has something contrary to say–kudos-well done.
There are a lot of idiots out there, and those idiots are often idiots because of their parents, not because of some national organization. Someone doesn’t become a rapist because he joined a fraternity, and he also doesn’t become a bigot because of a fraternity either.
“, the pronvincial apologist follows a dictum script: he/she first minimizes any problem, tacking back to a day of great embrace and nostalgia, and then marginalizing anyone or anything that has something contrary to say–kudos-well done.”
“Great embrace and nostalgia”? I’ve got no nostalgia whatsoever for the antebellum south. I’m about as northeast liberal as they come on most matters.
And how am I “marginalizing” you? You have every right to say whatever you want on this forum, as do I.
I never said racism wasn’t a problem in society, or that the SAE chant is acceptable. My hands would be around my kid’s throat if he talked like that, or if he hung around people like that. I am just clarifying what you don’t seem to understand about the depth to which a voluntary national organization can “control” what individual members say. I’m quite sure SAE national wishes that all of their young men would behave like True Gentlemen (their credo) and engage in polite, appropriate behavior at all times. Given that they revoked the OU charter within hours of hearing of the chant, doesn’t that tell you something? They can’t monitor every single person’s private thoughts and behavior at all times. All they can do is say - this behavior is unacceptable and if we hear about it, we’re kicking you out.
There are 2 possible scenarios in the cruise situation where the song was being taught. One is that SAE national (or their representatives, those in leadership positions) either explicitly taught it on the agenda or heard it being sung and smiled, laughed, said no big deal, that’s a good one. The other is that SAE national doesn’t stand for that, but they aren’t bugging private hotel rooms to hear what individual members gathered there say to one another, any more than my sorority national would bug my room to hear whether I was saying a naughty word or having premarital sex.
So…following this logic…someone becomes a rapist because of their parents?
I understand kids can be idiots, but when does a 20 year old man become an adult and stop hiding behind the cloak of willful ignorance and lack of personal responsibility?
Have they revoked the chapters at the other schools who have been singing the same song, or only the one that was on video? Have they gotten rid of the chapters who taught the OU guys the song? What I see here is not a deep aversion to members singing a racist song, but rather a deep aversion to a video shown on national TV of members singing a racist song. This appears to me to have more to do with a dislike of bad publicity than with a genuine desire to root out bad behavior.
^^^Are you then saying someone becomes a rapist because of their association?
Yes, I do believe a person is shaped by their upbringing, and parents often have the biggest influence.
PG: It bothers me a lot you keep comparing a racist song, which includes a lynching allusion, to a ribald song, or saying a naughty word, and now to having premarital sex. National will not suspend a sorority for ribald songs or naughty words or premarital sex as far as I know. Any ribald sorority songs I know are pretty feminist at heart. I don’t think they are getting anyone in trouble if they are taped. We may have very different songs.
No one on here is a rape apologist, a hazing apologist or a racism apologist. Please, just stop.
Past posts would suggest otherwise.
My thoughts align quite strongly with alb’s:
I would apply this to more than just hazing within greek organizations.
@Niquii - please reference PG’s posts to show otherwise
Why must it be her posts?
Then I don’t know what the heck you are talking about, as usual.
Well, she referred to earlier this week, on this same string, that these horrific actions were “bad behavior”. Bad behavior, at least in my house, is when the pooch mistakenly goes #2 in the house–not racist rants, sexual assaults, a young person becoming crippled for life or even a death.
PG: I don’t think that is who you are, so I’m having trouble understanding your arguments in this thread.
I understand you are a huge greek life supporter, at least of your individual chapter. Whether individual greek groups really are part of the larger organization, in any meaningful way, is an ongoing point of contention between us. I think this racist song may demonstrate a reason for you to reconsider your point of view in that regard.
Original post:
Comment in response:
As seen in the original post, Pizzagirl said “No one…” indicating that there is more than one person who isn’t a rape apologist, a hazing apologist, or a racism apologist. In response, I said there’ve been things said in the past that would suggest otherwise. It looks like you don’t understand that I’m not referring to Pizzagirl specifically.
Looks like I can’t help you, as usual. 
I don’t think PG is the only person who feels this way, few people’s bad behavior does not represent a larger organization, and dismantling an organization is not a quick easy fix of discrimination in our society. PG is one of the few who has bothered to respond to the same posters repeating the same mantra over and over again on CC. People should just vote with their feet (or money). You don’t like it, then just move on.
Excuse me, but I’ll voice my specific opinion as much as it needs to be exercised. No one is shouting you down–further, many of the critical of the Greek system, to their credit, respond with data and actual facts, as opposed to mere platitudes and ideology.
BoolaHi, I am sorry your daughter, you and the rest of your family had to go through this unacceptable behavior.
I appreciate your posts.
oldfort: If you are saying, just opt out of greek life if you object, I have to disagree. There are too many cases where greek life impacts the whole campus and it is impossible for those not involved to really opt out of being impacted.