<p>I do not have personal experience with sororities or fraternities. All I know about them is what I have seen on TV/movies and the news, along with what I have read about them here on CC, good and bad.</p>
<p>I can see some positives with them, and can even imagine that my D might end up joining a sorority, given the right circumstances, but, in general, I don't really understand why a college would want them. Is it just because they see them as a popular draw?</p>
<p>It seems that a big push right now is diversity, in various ways, on campus, but aren't the Greek organizations designed as exclusionary? From what I understand, students basically tryout to gain acceptance into a sorority or fraternity. Some are invited and others rejected. That just seems to go against the ideals that so many colleges profess to hold. </p>
<p>The allure of joining an exclusive club sets students up for tolerating, and engaging in, behaviors they would otherwise never do. I know that doesn't happen in all cases. I'm saying the system makes it more possible.
The idea behind the family/community of the groups seems wonderful, but is there truly no better way to encourage that?
Rather than sororities and fraternities, some schools have groups that are formed based on the dorm, or the year, etc that a student is in...including all students, could colleges that currently have sororities and fraternities not choose to go this route instead? Does this really not create the same sense of community that people seek in sororities and fraternities?</p>
<p>Personally, I think it would be a good thing if all sororities and fraternities were abolished and larger schools established residential college systems.</p>
<p>I would also prefer that college football be abolished. There is no way, IMHO, that institutions of higher learning can justify an activity that leads to brain damage.</p>
<p>Many on here complain about the parties, the excess… but almost nobody is recognizing the philanthropic activities nearly every Greek chapter performs.</p>
<p>Yes, they throw some awesome parties and at some schools are the center of the social scene; but they also spend time at soup kitchens, donate money to charity, etc.</p>
<p>“I don’t really understand why a college would want them. Is it just because they see them as a popular draw?”</p>
<p>Public colleges really don’t have a choice. The First Amendment right of freedom of association applies with public colleges.</p>
<p>As for why they would want them, there are a lot of reasons besides popularity. They often provide housing and catering beyond what the college is able to provide. They provide a social structure that would be difficult and expensive for the colleges to provide – and incidentally take some of the liability as well as the planning responsibility away from student services. They tend to produce alumni loyal to the college as well as the group. I don’t think colleges necessarily care about the philanthropy or leadership aspects, because the kids who seek those things out would probably find them in other organizations if they wanted to.</p>
<p>They provide a service for their members. They are a small part of the diversity at some major schools. They are a crutch, just as many social clubs, such as churches, are. They give people a sense of belonging. At some schools most students are far too independent to want those. There the Greeks are only important to themselves and do not affect campus life much. In my day at UW we felt sorry for the women who wanted to join.</p>
<p>I shudder at the thought of residential colleges taking over schools. You choose the same great school but then are excluded from being with people because you were assigned to a division within it? It is fine to have dorm activities but to force students to attend classes within a smaller division- yuck. I would much rather have many different sets of acquaintances- those from living space and a different one from classes. </p>
<p>I don’t understand the philanthropy comment at all. They are not the only source of that and provide much more for their members than anyone else.</p>
<p>I never liked fraternities and sororities but both my kids joined. I kind of like them now. I think social skills develop. And my kids had a good time. </p>
<p>Do we really need to hash this out again? It seems that we have this discussion at least once every season and all it does is give the greek-haters another chance to bash university greek life, the anti-southern greek faction to tell us that greek life is great as long as it’s anywhere but in the southeast, and the greek defenders another opportunity to try to explain greek life to posters who have already made up their minds that all greek life is evil and refuse to listen to any arguments to the contrary. There’s already a post that implies that students who don’t want to engage in greek life are simply too independent (ie superior, because it implies that greek students are somehow not sufficiently independent and are in fact, pitiable) for such activities.</p>
<p>??? That is not how <strong>residential</strong> colleges in the US work. (This is not Oxford or Cambridge, where one is admitted to a college within the university.) I personally prefer Yale’s system, where students are assigned to a residential college upon entrance. Everyone lives in freshman housing the first year, then moves to their college. They strive to create a microcosm of the diversity of the university in each house. Classes are university-wide, and house affiliation is irrelevant. My understanding is that at Harvard, freshman room together, and then put together groups who say they would like to room together who are placed in colleges. I suppose that has its virtues. I prefer the forced mixing of Yale. I don’t know how Rice handles it, or the other schools that have begun to impose a residential college structure on their accommodations that were not initially designed as colleges, such as Princeton and Williams.</p>
<p>I know of no university in the US where students study with professors primarily associated with a residential college.</p>
<p>The Residential College at Michigan requires that you take six to eight courses within the RC, but that’s out of 32+ in a college career, and anyway you choose to be in the RC. In fact, it’s selective, and you have to compete to get in. Anyway, that’s exceptional among American universities with residential colleges.</p>
<p>Rice’s system is more like Yale’s – freshmen are assigned to colleges at the beginning. There’s plenty of forced mixing at Harvard. You’re only picking your roommates, not a whole houseful of people. Yalies get to pick their roommates within their college, too.</p>
<p>Both of my kids love their sorority. They are sisters in more ways than one. Their college experience has been enriched because of their sorority. I think therefore they will be more loyal to their college and give more back in the future. I am not sure there are that many clubs or organizations which could get similar kind of long term connection.</p>
<p>I swore I was not going to jump into this, but I will put my two-cents into the argument. As a background, when I went to school on a Pell grant I was the first in my family to go to college. I was not rich and due to a few interesting life choices, am still more blue than white collar. So for all that scream elitism, take my story at face value. I may not be typical, but I am typical of the Greeks from my high school and the farm town in which I was raised. </p>
<p>I was in a sorority at a huge state school. My DS is in a fraternity at a very tiny LAC. For me, it made a large school seem smaller. I had set activities and the option to socialize and little or as much as I wanted to. I had plenty of time for friends outside of my house or Greek life in general, but I felt more connected to the school.
My DS is at a school with a fraternity history almost as old as their college. It is part of an intense experience. Over half the great traditions are linked to the houses. In addition, he feels connected to the alumni. he has had three legitimate leadership positions so far, which will help him on his resume and has certainly helped him grow as an adult. Handling a budget, attending board meetings, meeting with the college president are all worthwhile skills. I am not entirely sure he would be so well known on campus if he wasn’t such a strong leader in his house.
Both of us have made significant connections through our lives. Two MD shadowing experiences have come from connections to his house. I have had more than one interview based on my connections. We came from a blue-collar background, so those connections made significant differences in our lives.
People join for the connections, for the parties, for the sister/brotherhood. Even if they join for less than wonderful reasons, they still end up with leadership skills, philanthropy and cooperation/communication skills.
It has been shown time and time again that Greeks feel more connected to their schools. They have higher retention rates. Not everything at every house is perfect, but I am proud of my time and so is he. It isn’t for everyone. </p>
<p>Neither of my D’s joined a sorority at their schools that had a large percentage of the students joining frats and sororities. They had a lot of friends and were very busy and involved in their schools. Both are very loyal and have already donated money and /or performed other services for their school.</p>
<p>My S joined a fraternity. He is extremely loyal to his frat and returns to the school every year for alumni weekend. He views it as a very important and good event in his life. This year he brought his gf to the spring alumni weekend and she met several of his brothers. I should say, his frat did not have any demeaning hazing. ( His accapela group DID and he now has little to do with it after belonging for 3 1/2 years). His frat was very diversified, other than sexually, haha. But he had white, African American, Indian, Asian, gay, straight brothers.</p>
<p>All three are in their 20’s. So we are not talking about a long time ago.</p>
<p>But each made their own choices that were good for them. I think the fraternity helped my son build self confidence. My D’s did not think they needed what a sorority had to offer. I think there should be a choice.</p>
Beats me why anyone didn’t want to read more pro and con arguments about Greek life would, having read the thread title, decide to click on it in the first place. I certainly pick and choose only the threads that interest me, and certainly wouldn’t click on one just to opine that it shouldn’t exist…</p>
<p>I don’t think previous threads have focused on the question presented here by OP, i.e., why is it in a school’s interest to allow/encourage Greek organizations? Some good answers have been provided, and I, for one, learned something from this thread. </p>
<p>When I joined my sorority back in the 70s, it wasnt cheap, but it wasnt the crazy high cost they can be today. I am not just talking about dues and building funds. I am talking all the other events that cost a LOT of money. We wore our Active Dresses to a couple formal events (and we SEWED them!!), and traded/shared dresses for other events. The fraternities held their formals at local hotels, not the weekend trips out-of-town that I see today. We didnt do spray tans or have mani/pedis. We didnt have Tshirts for every game/event/swap/etc. I see kids today taking out student loans to pay for their greek memberships…yikes. </p>
<p>There have been several good points made here as to how the college might benefit from having Sororities and fraternities.
There are some aspects of Greek life I hadn’t thought of…some I didn’t even know were a part of it, particularly the leadership skills. I had not really envisioned that side of Greek life.<br>
I really didn’t post to argue for or against Greek life, just for a better understanding of why that system is maintained- and from what I understand it can be very different from one school to another.
As for my personal opinion, the jury is still out. I imagine my opinion will pretty much mirror my D’s opinion as she goes through her college experience. Time will tell!</p>
<p>I was in the Residential College in the Arts and Humanities at Michigan State. Only 1-2 classes a semester were in the college and the rest were outside. Within the college, there was an incredibly diverse array of classes one could take to fulfill requirements and they mostly replaced university requirements. I’m a huge proponent of the residential college model. </p>
<p>The why should/shouldn’t there be sororities/fraternities is a boring argument to me so I won’t chime in there. Just wanted to jump in on the RC issue. </p>
<p>UCSD and UCSC also have residential colleges, though the academic differences are just in the general education requirements. All students are assigned on (they indicate their choice on the admission application, but may not get into their first choices if they choose the popular ones). Also, like at many other public universities, upperclass students often live nearby off-campus.</p>
<p>Neither of my kids attended a school with Greeks, but that was a choice, just as someone else would choose to attend a school with a strong Greek presence.
I think choice is good…</p>
<p>Universities that can get rid of Greek houses (the privates) don’t do so a lot of times because they don’t want to piss off alums. I can see a reason for Greek houses in giant universities. I never cared for them, but some folks do form strong bonds/networks through them.</p>
<p>Wow - such hostility against Greek organizations. Many, many people have positive experiences in their sorority/fraternity. They are not compulsory. If you don’t want to join one, don’t. But I wouldn’t trash the whole system just because you don’t want to participate. </p>
<p>Are there bad/destructive aspects, especially in fraternities? Yes, there are many examples of excessive drinking, hazing, etc. I do think that the universities and the Greek organizations themselves, need to police these problems and find appropriate solutions. And bad behaviour can happen in any organization or club. </p>
<p>My H was in a fraternity, but got bored with it and quit during his senior year of college. But his best friends from college (30 years later) are still his frat brothers. My D loved her sorority experience, even though her school did not have residential houses. And it was not particularly expensive, since there was no house to maintain. </p>
Time will tell!</p>