@oldfort Yes, Greek life is peachy: you ever think why regular insurance does not insure these entities, and they have to take the rather extreme position of being self-insured?? And I am rather certain this board–electronically provides you a safe haven and insulation to exercise a tone you donʻt take normally with people in real life—its called being passive aggressive.
If we could get away from the personal attacks, it would be nice. Otherwise, someone is going to get banned or the thread will be shut down.
@boolaHi, maybe you are referring to fraternities. My D’s sorority is insured fully. In fact, she is in charge of risk management and has to deal with them every time they have a function.
At D’s school, the Greek houses do not have bedrooms. They are only houses built for official functions, and they are dry. When I say they are dry, I mean they really ARE dry. I think it’s good there are no bedrooms or drinking allowed there, as I think that cuts down on the chances of mistakes being made by either the guys or girls drinking too much and having immediate access to privacy where bad things can happen. Not saying kids don’t drink or make mistakes off campus, but still, I think it cuts down on some of the stuff one hears about going on at frat houses.
D2 said last night she is still thinking of going inactive (of the sorority) next year. She said it’s great when you are a freshman on a big campus knowing not one soul. By now, kids are fully integrated into their majors and spending a lot more time “working” their major with other kids in the program, and there is just not the same amount of time or desire to engage in organized social activities.
May not be the case at other campuses, or for other kids, that’s just her experience.
@boolahi - why do you continue to use insurance as a measure? Young adults (not fraternity brothers) car insurance rate is a lot higher than average population. I don’t know what’s college dorm’s liability insurance rate is like, but lets assume you are correct that those entities’ insurance is extremely high, so if at some point they couldn’t afford the insurance any more then they will cease to exist or change their behavior.
BTW - quite a few people on this board know who I am in real life. I am holding back quite a bit on what I am posting to you because I feel your pain. I would have taken a different action, but nevertheless I understand your pain.
This is boolahi’s phrase that continues to perplex me. Is it true one can find these photos or not? I haven’t read the other thread (due to fraternity bashing fatigue). I get so tired if people making statements about awful things fraternities in general do, and then they can’t back those statements up with facts other than a few anecdotes.
As I mentioned upthread, I saw Hunting Ground with husband and friends. Afterwards, someone commented that these frat guys, these athletes don’t usually have any problems finding willing sex partners. They could stand in the middle of a quad with a sign: Who wants to **** me? - and probably attract a large number of women. So, as we all know, it really isn’t about sex or drinking or women being foolish and leaving themselves vulnerable. This is about intentional dehumanization and degradation.
Some women freely and happily post nude selfies. If fraternities want to create their own porno sites, they don’t need to post non-consensual nudes. They could do like Playboy and require auditions. This is not ever the fault of the women. These men are intent on violating women one way or another. If they don’t violate your daughter, they will prey on someone else’s. This is all of our problem.
This should provide you with a backdrop and narrative of the essential problem–see; http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2015/03/19/the-revenge-pornographers-next-door/
I am hesitant to post an actual site for a couple of germane reasons: one, I donʻt want to promote these deplorable sites; two, they frequently change and morph into another site, every couple of months, three, I donʻt want to break any of the rules and posting comportment for CC.
Bay: using search terms from boolaHi’s post, I was easily able to identify some of these sites. It was clear what they were. I did not want to open them for fear of what they would do to my computer. Like you, I have difficult believing in their existence, but there they were.
When our own fraternity sons don’t participate in this behavior, it is more difficult to believe in it. Because I was aware of fraternity rapes from almost the moment I stepped foot on campus in the 70s, I have had a long time to process all this.
Back then the concept of acquaintance rape didn’t exist and rapes at fraternity houses were always the victim’s fault. There was absolutely no other way to even discuss it. In that context Hunting Ground is a very meaningful film to me, in spite of its much commented upon limitations.
If those women are posting willingly then where is the exploitation?
Oldfort: In spite of sites where women pose willingly, fraternities are putting up sites of photos were women either did not pose willingly or did not consent to have their photos posted. That is what has been all over the news recently. There is a whole other thread about it.
@oldfort, why do you think all these women are posting willingly? It certainly wasn’t the case with the women photographed by Kappa Delta Rho at Penn State.
When you have a camera in a closet during a sex act, or take a picture of a unsuspecting girl showering, or give a young women 8 drinks, and egg her on to take her bra off, this is not only unseemly, its amoral…
I also do not get the constant reference to insurance being expensive so therefore fraternities are bad. Doctors have high insurance rates, and some types of doctors have really high rates. Does that mean anesthesiologists are evil and dermatologists are good? That trial lawyers are irresponsible but patent lawyers are fine to associate with? That a family with a swimming pool is just a plague on society? No, it means certain activities are riskier.
What are the 5 risks insurance companies rate higher than a fraternity house for insurance purposes?
oldfort: At Penn State, the fraternity had a face book page with non-consensual photos of nude or semi-nude, unconscious or semi-conscious women. One woman saw the page when it was inadvertently left open at the fraternity house and insisted/threatened it be taken down. Then they set up a new page. Then someone brought the new page to the attention of the police. Then fraternity men started saying “everyone does this. It’s just satire. No big deal”
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/17/us/penn-state-frat-suspension/
…
I was referencing alh post. She said those women were willing participants.
I said some women are willing participants. We are not worried about those women. We are upset about women who were not willing participants.
My point is that some fraternity men are intent on degrading women. That is the point for them.
are we saying this kind of exploitation only happens in a fraternity.
Of course not. Rape culture is a pervasive societal problem. Fraternities are just part of the problem. (We really haven’t addressed college athletics on these threads) Some fraternities are providing a context for preserving and handing down racist and sexist traditions. I am not willing to excuse fraternities because they aren’t the only bad guys on campus. Any time we are willing to make a statement rape culture is unacceptable, as in closing down fraternities, it will have a positive impact on campus culture. I don’t believe the overall positives of fraternity life are equal to the negatives. I think the negatives impact those beyond the fraternity in a way they can’t escape. This is my opinion looking at the whole picture, not just what impacts my own family and friends.
I understand many of you don’t see what I am seeing.
Whether part of the Greek system…or not…the number one lessons to college students should be how to protect themselves. And how to know when to walk away from situations which have the potential to be harmful to them.
This just came up on my newsfeed. http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2015/03/31/rep-carneys-son-named-hazing-death-lawsuit/70724028/
I can not fathom the pain the family of Tucker Hipp’s is experiencing.
And it goes on and on, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/13/dartmouth-alpha-delta_n_7058078.html and in related news,http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/07/frats-shut-down-hazing_n_7001492.html?utm_hp_ref=college