<p>bump.........</p>
<p>Three reasons I see for a "more discussion of Grinnell" trend. . .</p>
<p>Demographics. . there aren't enough places for top students at the schools traditionally ranked at the very top, so more attention is now directed at other schools.</p>
<p>Once people are forced to look at Midwestern (or southern) LACs they realize that several (Grinnell, Kenyon, Macalester, Lawrence, St. Olaf, Rhodes, Centre etc) have at least as much, if not more, to offer a strong student as do traditional northeastern options. </p>
<p>Grinnell offers more merit aid than similarly ranked LACs.</p>
<p>JunaydMahmood, Mizmic, InterestedDad and others:
Sorry, but your data and statistics are totally shallow. JunaydMahmood, the most interesting piece of data you provided is that Grinnell is the "second richest college in the nation behind Harvard". I assume that is true, but I certainly was not aware of that statistic. Actually that statistic, if true, is very outrageously embarrassing for Grinnell. You are saying that they are the second richest college in the nation, but the lowest ranked liberal college in terms of attracting Black students? Get serious, do you not see the problem here? Open your eyes folks. You are citing very subjective things like "feel" ,"intangibles" and "love". Why do the factual data not support your very subjective descriptors? InterestedDad: Why do you have to rely on inaccurate descriptions of where Grinnell is actually located in respect to metropolitan populations (500 miles away from a metropolitan population - really!)? You had this same problem in describing where Davidson was located in another thread. Check your facts and take a deep breath before you reply. If you want to support Grinnell's efforts, you must put forth a much better and more sincere effort - and by the way, a few real facts please.</p>
<p>Grinnell and most other LACs are working very hard to attract African American students -- it's just difficult when you're located in the middle of Iowa (or Maine, or western Mass, or upstate NY...) Also, even if a small school has a relatively high percentage of African American students, the absolute numbers are pretty low - and, understandably, it's important to some students that there be a larger community. I have a daughter at Grinnell and she's found it to be a warm and welcoming place, and her friends are a diverse bunch.</p>
<p>Actually, the Dean of Admissions told me last week that per capita spending at Grinnell is 4th behind only Harvard, Princeton and Yale. I assume that he was quoting facts. Why the hostile tone? Grinnell is trying very hard to diversify their student body. In California, even graduating seniors don't know where Grinnell is, much less Iowa.</p>
<p>RHD, when did you visit Grinnell? or </p>
<p>RHD, you are right. We are wrong. Grinnell was a very devious plot, brilliant in its patient execution by the forces of segregation. Let's look at the plan. First let's send a group of duped abolitionists to Iowa to found a college educating a national student body in liberal thought and practice. Here's the best part-then let's lay in wait a century and a half , all the while educating social reformers and along the way let's amass a billion dollar endowment so that we can systematically deprive admission to the very people and classes of people our teachings for centuries have purported to "franchise" and whose causes our most prized and honored graduates have served. Bravo. Y'all can bring the sheets and hoods out now boys. We've had our fun. Or,</p>
<p>RHD. Are you ticked that a bunch of yankees picked on Davidson for what I personally thought were less than completely valid reasons? Blow it off. Those folks weren't sending their kids to Davidson anyway.</p>
<p>Folks, it is my opinion that change of the type Grinnell and Davidson are both striving to create can only come incrementally as there are historical and sociological factors at work that defy rational thought. Money, as in scholarships, ain't all there is to it. Several years ago one of the Iowa "cities" was running ads in Eastern urban areas of high unemployment offering to re-settle said urban families to Iowa with job placement. I don't think it was a very popular program. It failed to produce significant results.</p>
<p>I think it would be better to look to the commitment of the university and the depth of that commitment is not always apparent in the results. Sometimes they fail. It's the ones that keep plugging tirelessly away that earn my respect. Davidson and Grinnell are trying. They are both up against it in the recruiting of African-Americans-but they are trying to diversify and spending resources to do so. That's good enough for me, but then again, I'm not perfect either.</p>
<p>You folks have some funny ideas about the racial population of Iowa.</p>
<p>40 miles east of Grinnell, some 15,000+ African Americans live in Des Moines, a city of 200k. <a href="http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/19/1921000.html%5B/url%5D">http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/19/1921000.html</a></p>
<p>No one should seriously suggest that Grinnell is hampered by history or anything else. There is no excuse for 4% (61 of 1529 <a href="http://www.grinnell.edu/offices/president/diversity)%5B/url%5D">http://www.grinnell.edu/offices/president/diversity)</a>. Not in Iowa anyway. </p>
<p>Grinnell can't find 50 African American students in a nearby popluation of 15,000? What about the 400,000 African Americans living in St Louis? Too far for their marketing department? </p>
<p>They are not looking hard enough.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Actually, the Dean of Admissions told me last week that per capita spending at Grinnell is 4th behind only Harvard, Princeton and Yale.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's not true. I think what he said was that Grinnell has the fourth highest per student endowment. </p>
<p>The Williams alumni office prepared the following ranking of per student endowments:</p>
<p>Princeton
Harvard
Yale
Grinnell
Pomona
Rice
Swarthmore
Stanford
Williams
Amherst
MIT
Wellesley
Dartmouth
UWash-Stl
Smith
Bowdoin
Bryn Mawr
Chicago
Duke</p>
<p>The full list is here:</p>
<p>BTW, they forgot Emory, which is very high on the list, probably top 10. They have a huge endowment thanks to Coca-Cola and the Woodruff family.</p>
<p>Grinnell is high, but not extremely high in per student spending. The reason is that they can't charge as much. Iowa means discount pricing. I ran the numbers the other day. Swarthmore charges an average of $17,000 per student in tuition (net of financial aid discounts). Grinnell charges $12,000 on average. The difference is the sticker price, Swat actually spends a tick more in financial aid discounts.</p>
<p>Both schools spend a ton of endowment revenue per student -- as do all schools at the top of the rankings. That's why they are top-ranked schools. Follow the money.</p>
<p>The size of Grinnell's per student endowment combined with its significant merit aid would make it a very attractive choice and a terrific "admissions value".</p>
<p>My book is a little old but it appears they may have forgotten two Atlanta schools, Emory and Agnes Scott. In fact, it appears to leave out almost every southern school as Wash and Lee is also missing. It appears at second glance that this list was not presented as a list of top endowments per student but only as a representative sample based on some "peer" basis as decided by Williams. Several schools have endowments substantially higher per student than those listed on the link.</p>
<p>"I wouldn't want to go to a place where I wouldn't feel comfortable."</p>
<p>I have little doubt that Grinnel is very agressively trying to recruit URMs to its campus. But competitive black applicants (particulary those from urban, and high density suburban areas) often have grave reservations about attending an extremely white school in the middle of the corn fields. The truth of the matter is that these applicants often have several other "less scary" options available to them when decision time rolls around. Perception is everything.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There is no excuse for 4% (61 of 1529)
[/quote]
Interestingly enough the link cheers provided (once you remove the parentheses at the end) will allow you to access a 2004 diversity report which among other things shows that Iowa higher education institutions as a whole have a 3% African-American population, while Grinnell is at 5% according to that same report.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Grinnell can't find 50 African American students in a nearby popluation of 15,000? What about the 400,000 African Americans living in St Louis? Too far for their marketing department? </p>
<p>They are not looking hard enough.
[/quote]
I agree. Let's get after them right after we mess with the Boston folks, shall we? How about Brandeis 2%, or BU 2%, or BC 5%,or Northeastern at 6% when Boston is 25.3% African-American. But let's move to the real culprits those D.C. schools-GWU 5%,Georgetown 7% and American 6% with a surrounding "city" of 60% African-American. cheers, I can do these numbers at almost every school in the top hundred with only a handful or two of exceptions. Grinnell is not alone. At least their excuse is more plausible. How about Villanova at 3% with Philly at 43.2%?</p>
<p>And you know what , these cities aren't 51 or several hundred interstate miles away either. They don't need a marketing department-these schools I mentioned can just funnel them in off the streets of their own town.</p>
<p>I understand it's not that simple. Now multiply that problem by a hundred and you have Grinnell's situation.</p>
<p>That number for Boston is extremely misleading. The population of Boston proper is under 600,000. Metro Boston is 5.8 million. The town lines are the same as they were 200 years ago, so the metro area is comprised of hundreds of tiny little towns. Much of the black population of the entire state is concentrated in the city of Boston proper. Much of the state, including the majority of towns in metro Boston have zero, and I mean literally zero, black population.</p>
<p>Kinda like Iowa? There are 103 African-Americans in Poweshiek County.</p>
<p>I understand the argument is unfair. It's not my argument. I'm just pointing out that Grinnell is substantially better at attracting African-Americans (though still dismal) than some schools are that are within earshot of a far greater concentration of African-Americans.</p>
<p>Also, it's very misleading to use Catholic schools are a reference. As a whole, Catholicism is typically not a religion practiced by African Americans. If you think being black in a catholic college is lonely, try being black in a catholic church........I think my church might have 10 other African American families enrolled.....out of several hundred families. I think there are others reasons that blacks aren't attending GTown, Nova, BC. In addition, Boston has been historically known as being a "not friendly" place for African Americans. Thus, more progressive blacks (and their children who are headed for top colleges) might be tripping over themselves to get out of Boston. </p>
<p>This is the chicken and egg syndrome.......4% is a horrible representation from the AfAm Community. But, how will that number increase if more AfAms don't give it a try? Then again, who wants to be first? </p>
<p>Most likely, the AfAms who will be comfortable in a 4% environemnt are those who are already going to schools where they are the small minority and have learned to be comfortable in such a position. But, one you sieve out those students you have to then find those who have the stats for Grinnell. Now, consider that these same AfAm students are being recruited by the balance of the top colleges....in cities.....with higher AfAm populations.....and Grinnell has a tough time ahead. Even if Grinnell throws money at these kids, is it enough?</p>
<p>O.K. Swarthmore at 7% and Philly at 42.3% or Haverford at 5% at Philadelphia still at 42.3%. Is this really just a Grinnell problem , and is Grinnell the most egregious violator? I'm NOT picking on these other schools. I'm just pointing out that there are several top schools that have endeared themselves to CC posters whose records are equally dismal. Why the attack on Grinnell (by others momsdream, not your last post)?</p>
<p>Dito, Curmudgeon and Momsdream. You're both right on the money.</p>