<p>here's the link again, this one should work</p>
<p>I have posted a reply to mizsic's lovely comparison of Kenyon and Grinnell at <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=44052&page=2%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=44052&page=2</a> . I think I got carried away, lengthwise, so I don't suggest reading it if you are in a real hurry to get off the computer :)</p>
<p>A humanities/fine arts type might prefer the intellectual culture at Kenyon. A natural science type might prefer Grinnell. Flip a coin in the social sciences. An engaged student will be challenged at either school. </p>
<p>Socially, there are more wealthy kids from private schools at Kenyon; Grinnell may have a few more true-believer political activists. Each of these groups can have some very annoying representatives, but kids at both schools seem pretty happy, and graduation rates are almost exactly the same.</p>
<p>Two fine schools. . .</p>
<p>Well, jeez, I guess I would have to include just about every post above. C'mon people, get a hold of yourselves! "My ball has more air in it than yours does!" "No it doesn't!" Yes it does! Yours comes with a bladder, mine is entirely hollow!" Numbers, numbers, numbers . . . . It's a wonder you haven't caught on. It's not the school, it's the student. And while numbers can be divided into each other, and multiplied, wisdom's requirements are a bit more demanding. Oh, that we could pour, as Agathon would have it, from a full pitcher into an empty cup, but it just doesn't work that way. If you mark success with numbers then by all means, chase on. But a handfull of teachers--or maybe even just one, who is willing to help light the fire and who knows how to keep it burning--is all you need, and if the student is cold enough she'll take it from there. It's time to let them go. What happened to you?</p>
<p>. . . no apology required.</p>
<p>I have seen this happen again and again here on this board. </p>
<p>Parents have a child that decides on College A. College A then becomes "the best school in the world" and not subject to any discussion of possible faults or shortcomings. All other schools are deemed inferior. Anyone pointing out possible faults is deemed uninformed, or, worse, just plain stupid.</p>
<p>I think that this happens (1) because we ALL want to believe that we have made the superior choice and (2) if you're shelling out (or going to shell out) $40,000 a year for something you only want to hear, see, and focus on the good things about your investment. </p>
<p>This is probably just human nature, but, please remember that EVERY school in the US has pluses and minuses. There is no need to discredit other schools in order to build up the particular school your child attends, or, for that matter, to refuse to admit that there are shortcomings at even the best schools in the country. </p>
<p>Show me a school that is perfect in every way for every student and I'll show you a nice bridge in Brooklyn that you can buy cheap.</p>
<p>Bottomline: Parents, please bear in mind that your individual prejudices when discussing and reviewing schools and strive to be fair in reporting both the postitives and negatives of every school, even the one your child attends or will attend. That type of balanced presentation is the most helpful to other readers, parents, and students.</p>
<p>And, always, always remember that there may be parents, students, and alumni here who are sensitive to unbalanced reviews of particular schools. A balanced discussion of the pluses and minuses is always the best way to avoid hurt feelings.</p>
<p>I agree with that. An unbalanced negative review may be really negative for a student interested in that school. Especially an international one like me who can only base his opinion on people's reviews cause i can't visit the school myself, so please take this into consideration! Right now i learned not to care about those reviews cause they are too much different one from the other.</p>
<p>Reidm, robin1621, and Carolyn,</p>
<p>Well Said!</p>
<p>As doddsdad said, reidm, robin1621, and carolyn are right on target in what they have written.</p>
<p>I did not mean to be pejorative about Kenyon. I don't believe I was being slanderous. I was not citing facts and figures; you all are much better researched than I.
I was merely talking about our experience visiting Kenyon on two particular days in April, just two days. Not really enough time to decide where to spend the next four years. She just had a "feel' for Grinnell that leaned her in that direction. Neither of us disliked Kenyon in any way. In fact, I liked many things during my visit. </p>
<p>Things I loved about Kenyon (my daughter aside: however she is the one that made her final decision):
Again, drop dead beautiful campus located on a hill surrounded by rolling terrain and a river (who could ask for more in terms of physical beauty?)
Incredible performance by no less than six a cappella groups.
Large, large English Department
Kenyon Review, David Lynn
Good cafeteria food in an architecturally stunning building
Availability of the admissions officers to answer questions
The Kenyon Inn
The village of Gambier
The bookstore
The fitness facilities
The theater
President Nugent
Middle path
More foreign language offerings
$$</p>
<p>Things that I did not care for at Kenyon;
Cigarette smoking, butts littering Middle path (just my impression folks, I am from California where smoking is frowned upon: my own personal history is that my mother died from cigarette related disease, so I am sensitive to it: I know how seductive it can be, and how deadly)
Fraternities (I guess I was na</p>
<p>mizsic,
It is obvious that you didn't intend to be derogatory in the comparison of Grinnell and Kenyon which you posted on the Grinnell board. It seems that you were unaware that your remarks would be seen as less than constructive and offensive. Good luck to your daughter at Grinnell.</p>
<p>Thanks, Mother of Two. We are constantly told to let our children decide...that they will "feel" where they should go to school, that we should trust their feelings. I was trying to write what influenced my D in her decision.</p>
<p>No facts, no figures: she could care less about those matters. By the way, she thinks I am a complete dork for even posting on this board.</p>
<p>I do believe that frats and sororities serve a good purpose in large universities where finding community is difficult. I just question their ongoing positive influence in such a small LAC as Kenyon. And they are certainly implicated in alcohol poisonings and deaths across the country.</p>
<p>If we are to give our opinions on school, particularly in reporting things that are NOT in easily available publications, the reading would be so bland here. Some of the best stuff does come out in an opinion. But all readers should understand it is opinion only. Last year I was incredulous about some of the terrible college feuds that erupted on this board. That they were students fighting over Cornell vs Northwestern and the such made it a bit more understandable. </p>
<p>I have no stake in either Grinnell or Kenyon, would be proud to have a child in either, among many other school of their type in the midwest without having a quibble about most of the differences among those school as long as it is a good fit for the student who wants to go there. I have recommended Grinnell to many kids, rarely have I recommended Kenyon because it tends to show up on it own on kids' lists that I know, whereas Grinnell simply does not in my neck of the woods, and I have lived in Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh before coming back to the East. Anecdotal, yes, to some degree, but I am also looking at data over 10 years that number in the thousands, particularly job app data. Anecdotally, I do know some very strong students at Grinnell who turned down some better known choices after assessing the school. Most have gotten generous merit aid, but Grinnell's sticker price is favorable as well. </p>
<p>Carolyn, did your D look at Grinnell, I do not remember? But that is definitely a school that fits much of what she likes and with her test scores where they are, it would be a reasonable choice.</p>
<p>Funny, Mizsic, about the cigarette butts, at our visits we somehow encountered the smoking crowd at Grinnell, not at Kenyon! And I like freshman dorms because it gives the incoming class a better chance to get to know each other before mingling with the older kids. I am not crazy about frats and I doubt Kenyon students drink less than Grinnell, particularly because of the Greek scene. Liked the Walmart, cuz that is a quick source of stuff that can be expensive and hard to find in an area that doesn't have one of those stores nearby. The cutesy boutique and village shops can be frustrating when you are looking for a list that includes extension cords, a black T shirt, cheap sandles, cheap toiletries, etc. Until my D got a car, she paid exhorbitant prices for drug store stuff since the only stores that stocked the stuff nearby really ran the price up. Now she can go to a Walmart/Target type store and even pick up cheap grocery items. The nearby Grocery store made the 7-11 shops look like bargains. So as you can see, different folks look at the same things a different way. I hope no one who has or is thinking of having a child at either school feels that I think either school is "less" other than in specific statistical measures that may or may not be relevant, particularly relative to the rest of the schools in the US. When you take two schools that are fairly close in the ratings, and I mean within the same categories, you are talking about pretty small differences given how many schools there are in this country, and it is likely that the similarities are more striking than the differences between such schools. A significant difference is one that is something important to you, whether it is cost or a Walmart nearby.</p>
<p>mizsic,
I wasn't aiming my comments just at you, but at all parents, students, etc. who post here. I loved the way you organized what you liked and didn't like on your last post --- now THAT's helpful! Perhaps I am particularly sensitive to this issue because I know that some of my posts have irritated people who have kids at certain schools. :)</p>
<p>Jamimom, Grinnell would be a great fit for my daughter but, unfortunately, it would still be quite a reach because of her grades and overall GPA. She's back up to speed this year, but last year's dip due to personal events just pulls her overall GPA down so I am cautious about any potential reaches really being realistic. :(</p>
<p>jamimom :</p>
<p>Thanks for your posting. I don't have much time right now. So briefly,
I know that everyone has a different opinion of various schools based on their own experiences in life as well as during the campus visit.
From a practical standpoint, I know the Wal-mart will come in handy, but from an aesthetic and political standpoint, I abhor it. Those types of stores have led to the death of many a small downtown shopping area simply because the mom and pop stores can't compete. </p>
<p>I can't help it: I was raised in a union family.</p>
<p>Well it looks like D has decided on Kenyon. Just to clarify, the 15k debt is total for 4 years not per year. I didn't come in to the dscussion before because I wanted to be able to send D to it if she seemed to need it and wanted it to be as free of my voice as possible. Let her hear what others had to say. The final issue was the elusive fit. She felt that she belonged at Kenyon. For the future I think if she excels at Kenyon and pushes herself to take advantage of all the opportunities she will be fine. Grad school wise if the 2 aren't the same, being at the top of the heap at Kenyon v the middle at Grinnell are, I think comparable. We are also looking into americorp, which, according to a friend who has a college senior, will forgive 5k of debt for a year's participation. That would leave her with 10k before grad school. Also the Kenyon loans require yo top immediately begin repaying them, like a mortgage, so some of those will be gone as well. We are also encouraging her to find any little scholarships she can to nibble away at the debt.</p>
<p>It really came to head v heart. But when seh cried everytime she thought about doing what was the logical thing we knew it wasn't the right thing. Thanks for all your advice. We knew she had 2 good choices but seeing each school through the eyes of those who love them helped.</p>
<p>SRMom3 - I am glad your daughter made the decision which was right for her. I don't know if you saw my post to you yesterday on the Kenyon board where I said she probably knew in her heart which school she wanted to attend. Maybe we will meet at Kenyon sometime - it sounds like our daughters have quite a lot in common from what you have said about her previously! I'm sure you are very relieved the decision process is done!</p>
<p>Congratulations to SRMom3's D on her decision!</p>
<p>Congrats, Sr3MOM.
I do think it is very important to let them decide by their hearts. Each kid will have a different hearts desire: where schools and other affairs of the love are concerned! My D did not decide for Grinnell based on any quantitative data. It was what she knew in her bones. Sounds like your D made the right choice as well. With such excellent choices, they cannot go wrong. It is we who worry too much about class ranking and the like (and, our job, of course, is also to worry about finances!)</p>
<p>Congratulations on a decision! $15k total is not that big of a price to pay for being able to follow one's heart. Best wishes to your D!</p>
<p>Hey, you can't even buy a decent new car for $15,000. I agree with Mstee - it's nothing compared to being able to follow your heart. Congratulations to your D on an excellent choice!</p>