Growing Gender Gap in Admissions

Parent Cafe
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<p>From the front page of today's L.A. Times:</p>

<p>(partial quote)</p>

<p>A Growing Gender Gap Tests College Admission</p>

<p>By Peter Y. Hong, Times Staff Writer</p>

<p>SANTA CLARA, Calif. — When admissions officers for Santa Clara University recruit new freshmen, they do their best to reach the kind of students they'd like to see more of on the Silicon Valley campus: boys.</p>

<p>"We make a special pitch to them to talk about the benefits of Santa Clara, as we do for other underrepresented groups," Charles Nolan, Santa Clara's vice provost for admissions, said of the school's efforts to boost male applicants.</p>

<p>It's a startling development to anyone who remembers that Santa Clara was all male until 1960. But the Jesuit-run school reflects an important transformation of American college life.</p>

<p>Among the 4,550 undergraduates at Santa Clara, 57% are female. That matches the percentage of U.S. bachelor's degrees now awarded to women, a demographic shift that has accelerated since women across the country began to attend college at a higher rate than men about a decade ago.</p>

<p>Today, many colleges, particularly selective residential schools, face a dilemma unthinkable a generation ago.</p>

<p>To place well in influential college rankings, those schools must enroll as many top high school students as they can — and most of those students are female. Administrators are watching closely for the "tipping point" at which schools become unappealing to both men and women. They fear that lopsided male-female ratios will hurt the social life and diverse classrooms they use as selling points.</p>

<p>Despite employing the same tactics used for years to lure ethnic minority students, few colleges say they give admissions preferences to boys. But high school counselors and admissions experts say they believe it is happening.</p>

<p>"At some schools, it's definitely a strategic advantage" to be male, said Chuck Hughes, a former Harvard admissions officer who is now a private admissions counselor and author of "What it Really Takes to Get into the Ivy League and Other Highly Selective Colleges."</p>

<p>Vincent Garcia, a college counselor at the Los Angeles prep school Campbell Hall, said liberal arts colleges, especially, can be "more forgiving of the occasional B or even a C" from a boy. "Sometimes the expectation is a little bit less" than for girls, he said.</p>

<p>At Santa Clara, admission standards have risen along with female enrollment, and officials say those have not eased for boys. But for the last two years, the college has targeted special mailings to high school boys. Current students also telephone every accepted male to encourage him to attend, something that is not done for every girl.</p>

<p>Full article is at:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-me-boys21nov21,1,1221406.story?coll=la-headlines-frontpage%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-me-boys21nov21,1,1221406.story?coll=la-headlines-frontpage&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>A few interesting statistics culled from the article:</p>

<p>National college enrollment:
56% female
44% male</p>

<p>U.S. high school students in top 10% of class
58% female
42% male</p>

<p>U.S. students who maintained an A average
62% female
38% male</p>

<p>U.S. students who took four years of
Natural Sciences 46% male, 54% female
Math: 45% male, 55% female
Foreign language: 39% male, 61% female</p>

<p>Undergrad enrollment at some Calif. schools:
Cal State L.A. -- 37% male, 63% female
UCLA -- 44% male, 56% female
Berkeley -- 46% male, 54% female
USC -- 50/50
Caltech -- 67% male, 33% female</p>

<p>Mean SAT scores
verbal 512 male, 504 female
math 537 male, 501 female</p>

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<p>I've looked at the breakdown in admissions statistics for many LACs (my daughter's interest) and there seems to be a definite admissions advantage to being a male these days. It's really quite striking at some schools, to the point where I really don't trust "median" GPAs and SAT scores any more - I want to see the actual female median to get a sense of my daughter's real chances. I am not quite 100%% convinced that it is all because males are getting lower grades or lower SATs in school, either. I think some of it is because males tend to choose certain types of schools (i.e., engineering schools, research universities) while females gravitate towards LAC's and smaller comprehensive schools. In any case, we have yet to look at a school where the male-female ratio is close to 50-50.</p>

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<p>so what are all the boys doing?
Out making money?
<a href="http://www.thedailystar.com/news/stories/2004/09/18/gen.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thedailystar.com/news/stories/2004/09/18/gen.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>I think that some of the recent female/male imbalance is a direct result of affirmative action.</p>

<p>Swarthmore overall is 52% female/48% male. However, the female to male edge among the minority groups is staggering. For example, African American females have a two to one edge over Af-Am males. Although not quite as strong, the same dominance by females holds true among Hispanics and Asian-Americans as well.</p>

<p>The only group where there are more males than females is among the white student population.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/Admin/institutional_research/RaceSex.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.swarthmore.edu/Admin/institutional_research/RaceSex.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>I don't know ID...then how do you account for schools with tiny minority enrollments that still have lopsided gender enrollments?</p>

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<p>K-12 teachers are predominantly female. School is structured for girls and requires skills that girls excell at. When I was in high school I had to write papers and take tests. There were no art projects in AP classes like there are now.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
School is structured for girls and requires skills that girls excell at. When I was in high school I had to write papers and take tests. There were no art projects in AP classes like there are now.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Didn't I see that males excel at the SAT and PSAT?
Can you clarify what you mean by art projects in AP classes?
My daughter didn't take AP and certainly not AP art so I am curious.</p>

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<p>Yep, classes are definitely in favor of girls. Lots of discussion and analysis of fictional characters, lots of presentations, mostly female teachers, and brown-nosing is a guaranteed way to get to the top.</p>

<p>Guys usually get tired of discussing Sethe's motives in the book Beloved after the first half hour.</p>

<p>By art projects she probably means posters and such. We do that.</p>

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<p>Yep, classes are definitely in favor of girls. brown-nosing is a guaranteed way to get to the top.
Talk about generalization! Besides, You are talking about AP English, the only AP class that invloves the analysis of fictional characters. That has always been what advanced English classes involve. What about AP Chem or AP Calc? girls are not given the advantage in these classes.
Who said girls were better at brown nosing? I know some low guys who suck up to get higher marks.</p>

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<p>Oh, I don't think that's all of it. In fact, I think the extra gender gap among minority groups may just be a more vivid example of the overall trend.</p>

<p>No question that elite colleges get more applications from females and struggle to maintain a 50%/50% balance. Many schools can't get 50/50. I know that many of the schools my daughter looked at were fairly significantly tilted towards women in the applicant pool.</p>

<p>I went to a regional awards dinner for the top 10% of the senior classes at a half dozen local area high schools. We sat and watched as all two billion five hundred kids went up to get their certificates. The line was overwhelmingly female. Shockingly female. I would guess 2 to 1 female.</p>

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<p>Males do perform better on standardized tests such as the SAT, but girls get better grades. They have better fine moter skills which means their handwriting is better and they are better at making all these posters that are now required in high school. They are also better at sitting still and being compliant. They will do busy work becasue the teacher told them to and they want a better grade. Boys resist doing assignments that they don't find meaningful. They would rather read the material and take tests.</p>

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<p>it's because females need college to make a decent living and males don't?</p>

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<p>In the movie about stealing the SAT test, "The Perfect Score," the answer to the question about who gets the highest SAT scores was "middle class Asian chicks who watch less than one hour of television a day." I don't know if that's true or not. I have also heard that girls don't do as well in the verbal part as boys do because girls are more attuned to variations in interpretation, which means they see that more than one multiple choice answer could possibly be correct. But I don't understand why it is shocking if more girls than boys get awards. Would it be less shocking if it were the other way around?</p>

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<p>I don't know abot the discrepancy between verbal and math SATs--my son scores the same on both. But I do know that, for him, there's a discrepancy between his test scores and his grades--even between his grade in an AP class and his score on the AP exam for the same class, which will be higher-- because of his obstinate refusal to do what some of you are calling brown-nosing. He has never been willing to do what he perceives as busy work, and he has always been vehemently opposed to what he perceives as sucking up to the self-important. Unfortunately for him, there are several teachers of that ilk at his high school, and the resulting grades from his junior year will likely make his application to MIT unsuccessful. We can only hope that high test scores, excellent recs from the teachers who didn't need emotional homage from their students and everything else will overshadow those B's at least for Chicago! And, for his sake, I hope some of what you are saying about boys' having some advantage will work for him. I care about saving Ophelia, but I can't help hoping for everything for my son!</p>

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<p>ctymomteacher, MIT has a knack for cutting through the fog of grades and other stats and spotting native talent. There's hope.</p>

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<p>The problem is that for boys it is "brown nosing" and "sucking up", while for girls it is what you do - the teacher assigns homework, you do it; you are supposed to sit still in class, you do it. The simple truth is, even if its not PC to mention this, that be it from nature or nurture, by the time kids are teens girls and boys are definitely wired differently (I think they are born different,personally), and the characteristics of girls make them generally more successful in that social setting we call "school".</p>

<p>(I'd like to see the birth order study, because my observation is that birth order can overcome gender sometimes.)</p>

<p>Ctymom - "school" though, is not life, and many of the things that hamper boys in school are advantages in later life. Also (I'll get flamed for this one), we are just beginning to understand the subtle effects of hormones on the brain vs the obvious effects of hormones on the body. I think we will learn eventually, in a scientific way, what lots of "old wives" have known always - until young boys get their juices settled down, get through puberty completely, which maybe age 18-19 - they don't quite think logically, or clearly, or, unfortunately, safely.</p>

<p>For example, DD has for the last 6 years, periodically fussed about busywork, and made comments about teacher pleasing - but she still does it, because she is practical, you got to play the game to get ahead. My son at 13 is already showing signs of why do I have to study or do the busywork when I understand the material - he truly doesn't get why you have to do it, and when the reasons are brought home to him, he gets angry (aggressive) and refuses - so there!
It is fascinating to watch and heartbreaking to live through.</p>

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<p>Zuma--Bless you for your kindness.</p>

<p>Cangel--I don't think what you said deserves a flame. There are plenty of views about the absolute equality of the sexes that I held until I had my own son and watched him grow into the young man he is. However, there's a difference between doing what's assigned and the sort of "brown-nosing" I'm talking about. There are some teachers at my son's high school who need to get their egos stroked or their emotional lives fed by their students. That's what he won't engage in, and I support him in his refusal even though it has cost him and will continue to do so.</p>

<p>I also agree with you about their brain growth. That's not opinion-recent research supports what you're saying as well as what I've observed in my own son. Around 17, they start to settle as far as judgment and objective thought go, and boys are a bit behind girls. Too bad for those of us in the great second wave of feminism. Truth is truth.</p>

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<p>ctymomteacher,
You and I have the same kid! </p>

<p>tsdad,
I was thinking along the same lines. And the gap in income pointed out by emeraldkitty in that article could be partially due to the fact that men are able to earn more money than women in jobs that don't require a college degree (i.e. plumbing/electrical versus administrative assistant or Walmart checker). (Not that there are female plumbers, etc...). Young women see that their chances of making a decent income are severely hampered without a BA and so they do what it takes. Young men have more and higher paying options without college.</p>

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<p>The desire to learn and perform well in school starts at an early age and depends on the example set by parents. Children learn a great deal from both parents, but when it comes to role models, girls look more to their mothers than to their fathers and boys look more to their fathers than to their mothers (over the course of their childhoods). The prevalence of single parent families means a prevalence of families run by women. This means that girls are more likely to have a strong and continuous role model throughout their lives, but boys will not have a similar example. If a father tells his son to pay attention in school, study hard and complete homework, it has a greater impact on the son than if his mother says the same thing. The absence of fathers in many homes means the message to do well in school is weakened for boys. The result of this is a disparity in male/female ratios in college. (I realize their are numerous exceptions of boys from single female parent families who have done well; e.g. Pres. Clinton. What I am talking about is large groups of people in our society as a whole.)</p>