<p>Here's an interesting article discussing the gender imbalance in admissions and how males may be receiving some preference at certain schools:
<a href="http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/women/chi-0502020026feb02,1,7147867.story?coll=chi-leisurewomannews-hed&ctrack=2&cset=true%5B/url%5D">http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/women/chi-0502020026feb02,1,7147867.story?coll=chi-leisurewomannews-hed&ctrack=2&cset=true</a></p>
<p>Here's a link to an article on the same topic that doesn't require a subscription:
<a href="http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0124menoutreach-ON.html#%5B/url%5D">http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0124menoutreach-ON.html#</a></p>
<p>Carolyn, this brings up your idea of female and male oriented schools.
I see females outdoing males where I live and it isn't close. One problem I see is the males don't want to go to the "female" schools even with help. For example, Skidmore. If Skidmore gave an edge to males, the males that would need that edge don't want to go there. They want to go to Penn State.</p>
<p>"Males favored in admissions?"
Please let it be so! [I have two sons.]</p>
<p>How about straight forward affirmative action for males? Across ethnicities and income levels? Will we reach the day when we have a law suit opposing such affirmative action by gender?</p>
<p>Fortunately I went to an all boy Catholic school. At the time I felt that was a drawback. Now I realize that I was spared the trauma of having to compete with obedient diligent girls who like to spend their spare time doing extra credit projects. Not having the girls around some of us were able to feel like we were good students.</p>
<p>JOKING ASIDE I was having a discussion with my law partner, who has three girls, and we were trying to decide why it seems like the girls of our professional friends are clearly doing so much better as a rule than our sons who at least according to standardized tests are just as smart. It seems to us that this gap develops mainly in middle school and is clearly evident in highschool. This obviously suggests changes in puberty? What is the reason?</p>
<p>I could be wrong on this, but aren't girls showing better results in a number of subjects but trailing in others, including some that are critical? I also thought that girls did not do as well as boys in standardized tests.</p>
<p>No bad case of misogyny here ... I have a younger sister who does everything better than I ever did. Anedoctal as it may be, she also works a lot harder on school subjects than I ever did and is always worried to disappoint. If I see a difference between boys and girls, it has to be a variance in confidennce and ... ability to BS our way out of problems. </p>
<p>Nothing scientific here! :)</p>
<p>Thanks, Carolyn and Roger -- interesting article for the files.</p>
<p>When we were looking at liberal arts colleges for my D, we did become aware of this phenomenon. It was pretty clear in some places that the gals were intellectually superior to the guys. In an private conversation I had with one admissions officer following an information session, this impression was confirmed. I asked about the difference, and was told that the school gets applications from females that really wow them, while for the guys, well, they just have to be decent. </p>
<p>It was in part for this reason that my D decided on a single-sex school. She figured she'd rather be surrounded by sharp women than not so hep men. </p>
<p>Perhaps society is changing enough, however, that the idea of a highly talented woman paired with a somewhat less accomplished man will be a totally acceptable arrangement. </p>
<p>Anyhow, I think this presents a good window of opportunity for some male applicants with less than stellar stats. Let's have a follow-up when the study is released!</p>
<p>This is going to be a little off-topic but my DS (11th) and DD (12th) have discussed this at length in a round-about way. They have noted that the top students at their school, they coined the phrase "super-achievers" for this group, are predominately female. Son and DD are in the same classes, Ap and Honors science/math/foreign language focus so they see the same kids, day in/day out. Makes for great dinner conversation!</p>
<p>In their pre-calc and Calc AP classes, AP Chem, AP Spanish, AP English and history, it is 80-85% girls. Son is one of the few boys, same with club leadership/officers, student body govt., newspaper... mostly all girls. Many boy members not officers though. Only place it seems there aren't as many girls is in sports, varsity. At first I thought it was because we were in the south, but kiddos said no, at their previous high school in NV, it was also true, at a high school of 4800+.</p>
<p>But, and there is a but, what is interesting is in the grades. If the teacher just uses quiz and test scores for overall grade than the boys do much, much better. However, if included in that grade is homework, projects, lab work, extra credit, than the girls do better. Now this is obviously just from kids' observations, but from different gender viewpoints in 2 very different locales.</p>
<p>Classes where there were only 2 girls were DD's honors physics, CAD, architecture and engineering drafting. She was one of 2 girls in physics and the only in arch, eng, and CAD. And here, the boys' sports teams do much better at the regional and state level. DD is only one of 2 girls in any sport to advance past the regional level. Now this is only since we have been in NC, this was not true in NV.</p>
<p>But I can see how with college applications my DD looks better on paper than my son and yet, in her words brother is a "brain" who spends all day laughing at her silliness. She received the same grades in math and science as he, and yet she squeaked by for her A's and worked her butt off and he slept through class with the highest A's achievable. Their transcripts look similar, but not the same with very close scrutiny. And their SAT's are 300+ points apart. 300+. She hates that, and he just pats her on the head. Her EC list is HUGE and is pres this, pres that. So very different and yet again, on paper they look similar. I can see how, based on the type of questions colleges have on their applications and what types of essay questions asked and answered how it could be beneficial to girls coming out of high school.</p>
<p>Son is going to miss his little (older) sis. Who will tell him what to do??? That's right, she will call him everyday and nag him!! Her older brother does it to her!</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>Carolyn - my first thought when I saw your thread title was: I certainly hope so! Mainly because I have one of those boys who isn't setting the world on fire even though he's got the potential to do so. My daughter just seems so much more motivated and well-rounded (academically, socially, EC-wise, leadership positions) and he seems so much more one-dimensional (golf, golf and more golf). Right now he's making noises about a small school environment and I think that would be the right environment for the late-bloomer that I think he might be. And if being male gives him an edge in admissions to those types of schools, we'll take it.</p>
<p>Fredo - Here's a tip: most colleges will post their "common data set" information on their web site (but you have to search for it). The common data set breaks down the percentage acceptances by male and female. In most of the schools my daughter is looking at, they accept a noticeably higher percentage of males. So, I'd say anyone with boys should be checking out that information to get a sense of what sort of boost the y-chrome factor may play at a particular school.</p>
<p>I really do think it helped my son last year in admissions. He was looking at small LACs, and unlike most of his male friends that are computer science/mathematics he is social sciences and English. Of course being from South Texas where nobody within shouting range applies to your schools also helps.</p>
<p>heidi - Definitely true in some schools. You can begin to figure out which ones by the %male/female at each school: many have higher % females and want a closer balance (this is not infallible; eg, some of these same schools have plenty of males in the Coll. of Engineering, etc.).</p>
<p>Within a week after one of these articles was published,</p>
<p>our S got a mailer from one of the schools featured - allowed him to do a "snapshot app" - no fee, no essay. Was admitted almost immediately. Not a HYPS or AMW, of course, but a decent school he had visited.</p>
<p>
lol
Not sure it waits until middle school to start, though. A couple memories etched in my mind from K-4: [ul][<em>]School "talent show". Not a single male participant, no dancers, no singers, no piano, no nothing.[</em>]Glancing at student work papers thumbtacked to classroom bulletin boards - could spot the female vs male papers from 50 feet (neatness, "staying in the lines" type drawings...)[/ul]</p>
<p>Not saying this last item makes girls better, just that the same hormones which lead to those behaviors also lead to school "success."</p>
<p>One theory I have had since watching my S vs. me and vs. girls in his class:</p>
<p>Girls seem to me to very often follow the thought process of "what does the teacher want and how can I give it to her?" Boys follow a thought process of "what is the minimum I need to do to fulfill the assignment?" I can remember my son in 2nd-3rd grade when assigned to write an essay of at least 5 sentences. He would stop and count his sentences - if there were 5, he was done! No matter that he was in the middle of a thought.</p>
<p>
this is the characteristic of girls I was trying to refer to which enhances school success, I think. Ultimate success? Not a KSF (key success factor from my B-school days). Here so much more comes in to play - risk taking...</p>
<p>I would say maturity levels even out, but let's be honest here. Do the Hs ever grow up? (lol)</p>
<p>let's not get carried away here....as you can see, 60-70% of all 1500 and above scorers are male.</p>
<p>Funny, I thought about posting a thread about the pitfalls of sending S to a 60/40 F/M school. Then I remembered the 25/75 F/M ratio of my 1975 architecture class. :p</p>
<p>Lotsa hormones....let's just put it that way....</p>
<p>carolyn: I wonder if girls apply to more schools than boys? (What with being more organized, motivated, etc.) Perhaps the colleges need to accept a higher percentage of boys to get the yield? I'm no mathmetician - so I may be way off base about that. </p>
<p>This conversation, which gets started now and then on CC, always makes me so thankful for the all-boys high school! It's so great to have my boys in a place where they not only fit in, but they have created too. And it is a VERY boyish place. I was sitting in a public school classroom yesterday (son was at a competition there) looking around. It was a history room and was decorated to the hilt. Every bit of wall space had some poster on it, or kids' projects; the bulletin boards all had fancy borders around them and lots of maps and stuff. SO DIFFERENT from the classrooms at my sons' school. Basically - their classrooms really look like men run the place. Pretty bare bones, with the occassional really dusty (usually sports) poster hanging up. It's perfect. And I think their education has been wonderful.</p>
<p>katwkittens got me thinking about the breakdown of the genders in my classes.</p>
<p>Psychology (non-honors) - 7 boys and 9 girls
AP Statistics - 9 boys and 8 girls
AP Biology - 7 boys and 10 girls
AP English - 5 boys and 13 girls
AP Gov't - 9 boys and 21 girls
AP Spanish - 3 boys and 7 girls</p>
<p>I think that the number of boys and girls, in advanced classes, tends to be closer in Science and Math classes while girls trump us boys in Humanities and Social Sciences.</p>
<p>Oh Hallelujah! There is hope for my son. Jmmom, oh yessyesyesyes, 5 sentences, I'm done, he is still doing that and he is 13! SLipstream and Kat, we see the same sort of breakdown of gender, and boys doing great on tests in DD's classes, in fact DD and I just had lunch together today, and were talking about it. The boys may have as high or higher test scores, but it is hard for them to get it together for a "full package", homework is a bummer. The girls as a group are more teacher pleasers and still just better organized. There are 1.5:1 girls to boys at the top, which is just about the opposite of the gender ratio of the class as a whole.</p>
<p>AP Physics C - 18 boys, 3 girls.</p>