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GC in that district wisely counseled her about her realistic chances for D/P/S, suggested a few other schools, girl ultimately was rejected at D/P/S but got into Vandy and Emory and is now at Vandy.
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Our HS counsellors are very good about this, and every kid who got into an Ivy League school this year had applied to a number of schools, including some great but non-Ivy schools, as well as an in-state safety. And in addition to our Ivy League kids, we have multiple kids headed to Georgetown, NYU, Vanderbilt, Emory, Northwestern, etc.</p>
<p>A relatively near by HS, a few districts away, which seems to have plenty of AP classes, to be well-funded, and to be large and "with it," doesn't manage to do this, and many of their top kids end up at our state flagship year after year because they only apply to reaches and safeties. Year after year!</p>
<p>My niece went to a small rural school and was a straight A, 29 on the ACT student, top of her class, a great kid. Her GC told her she would be able to get in anywhere she wanted to. She got into her top choice LAC with a nice scholarship but it was not HYP. It annoyed me that her GC would say something like that but in my opinion it is much more "excusable" for a small rural school than it is at a large suburban school (like our relatively nearby school). Isn't there some sort of "continuing education" for GC's to help them learn what we know - that even if you are a perfectly plausible Ivy League acceptee, you really need reasonable matches as well as safeties? To give kids more options than their safeties. I agree with the OP Pizzagirl.</p>
<p>I take it that you are not concerned about your child alone but about the advice that other students are getting from their GCs, and that you want to take the opportunity of having a new head of counseling to change the nature of the advice.
What I may be seeing from your posts is not just either state uni or cc vs. HYP but state uni or cc vs. LACs and mid-sized unis that are not HYP.
so perhaps the advice you could give the new head of counseling is to ask the other GCs to educate themselves about LACs (using Loren Pope's book perhaps?) and also about need-based vs. merit money.
One of the ways you could steer the GCs in this direction is to suggest that GCs hold information meetings (our hs holds several a year) where such topics would be the focus of the discussion. The GCs would have to educate themselves if they don't already possess the information. Another is to see if the school can get reps from different types of schools (unis, LACs) to come and do presentations.</p>
<p>The first thing to do is to request to see the school description and the transcripts that are sent to the colleges. It is appalling how some schools present themselves. Often inaccurate and harmful to the students. When your D applies to colleges, she should give the teachers and GC,not only a resume but a commentary on herself. She stands a good chance that they will use it in the write up because it is easier for them. To let them go with just a resume is not a good idea. For them to answer the questions on those forms may be acceptance suicide. Those who don't know the "system" may answer the questions without a thought. Those who do, know that a less than perfect on some questions can be a strike out. None of the savvy private schools I know bother with those questions. They write a long, personal paragraph or more about the student. Let the people know that she is going for juicy scholarships so that some extra commentary is needed. Don't ever imply that what they are doing regularly is inadequate. Always ask as a favor and give reason. If you want to make big changes, do it after she is graduated. People often take umbrage with change. </p>
<p>An outside college counselor may be a good investment for you. CC here offers such help, and there may be some in your area. Also other parents whose kids have applied to schools that are not so well known.</p>
<p>Our school had similar results last year despite having some very accomplished students (lots of rejections from colleges they should have been accepted to). This year the school made changes to the way the school presented itself in the written materials sent out with applications/transcripts, and in what was posted on the school's website. Your school should think about how it "markets" itself and its students. PM me for more details.</p>
<p>That 's a good idea, Marita, but my experience and others' at a large school district similar to OP's has been that the school is perfectly happy the way they are doing things. For most kids and families, the brass ring is admissions to the flagship school. Otherwise it is other state schools or OOS state schools. The number of kids going to those schools is the majority. Throw in a few local colleges, and that just about does it. Many parents are aghast at the idea of paying $40-50K to LACs they do not know.</p>
<p>"What I may be seeing from your posts is not just either state uni or cc vs. HYP but state uni or cc vs. LACs and mid-sized unis that are not HYP.
so perhaps the advice you could give the new head of counseling is to ask the other GCs to educate themselves about LACs (using Loren Pope's book perhaps?) and also about need-based vs. merit money."</p>
<p>Yes, that's EXACTLY it. It's not about HYP or bust. It's about ... there's a world out there beyond the state schools of Illinois and low-tier Illinois privates.</p>
<p>Yes, there is quite a world. There are many books out there about those schools. What I find missing, however, are good narratives on those schools not covered by "top 300" lists or Loren Pope's books. There are a lot of excellent schools out there that could use some press.</p>
<p>"When your D applies to colleges, she should give the teachers and GC,not only a resume but a commentary on herself. She stands a good chance that they will use it in the write up because it is easier for them. </p>
<p>cptothehouse---wow, that's great advice! Son is asking for recommendations as we speak from teachers (lining up for early, rolling admission in the fall/late summer). I'll ask him to give a summary of his accomplishments (esp since his grades, school ECs don't reflect his other interests/businesses started/etc.) </p>
<p>Remedial question...the 'questions' you are talking about (which are advisable to disregard by GCs in favor of a summary paragraph) -- are they from all the colleges to which the student applies and directed to the GC? Didn't realize this would happen, if so. We'll give</p>
<p>Take a peek at the common app. Particular the pages to give to the counselor and the teachers. Also look at some college apps of schools that you know. Many want a 1-5 or less or more rating of kids in a number of areas from initiative to honesty. My kids' schools do not have anyone fill out those things, nor do most of the schools I know. The teachers and gC write a one size fits all narrative covering a lot of those areas without assigning numerical ratings and that is just attached to the sheet.</p>
<p>Re post 27: You're very right. I was thinking that if the GCs do not know about the world of colleges beyond the IL system on the one hand and HYP on the other, it might be a good idea to start gently, rather than overwhelm them with information. Once they have bought into the idea, their horizon can be expanded.
Another possibility is to find if a similar district has posted a list of where their graduates are headed. Our school has one such list, which is not has helpful as it could be since it does not include the number of students admitted/matriculating, but it included a number of schools I had not heard of. Obviously, some families had.</p>
<p>Besides the resume, your child should include something about himself: some anecdote that the teachers may not remember, or some aspect of him they would not be aware of... this helps make the recommendation more personal and less generic. So, instead of merely saying Student X is a born leader" the rec could say "Student X's leadership qualities were fully on display when we tackled such and such project..." or "despite his heavy involvement in xyz activity, Student X is always meticulously prepared. I remember one occasion when..."</p>
<p>One high school I know also gives the cumulative scholarship offers their kids get. It looks impressive. What is nice about doing this is that there are a lot of schools out there that give out merit $$s that are not well known.</p>
<p>"Many want a 1-5 or less or more rating of kids in a number of areas from initiative to honesty."</p>
<p>So...if you don't know whether your HS would in fact fill out those ratings or specific questions...it's better to be pre-emptive and provide the paragraph summary I assume? I wonder if it would be worthwhile to ask the GC whether they filled out those (unnecessary, apparently) ratings and questions. Or, whether that might be deemed intrusive...</p>
<p>"Another possibility is to find if a similar district has posted a list of where their graduates are headed."</p>
<p>That's easy enough to do. It's difficult for me to parse out whether the GC's do reco other places and the parents just don't care, or whether the GC's just don't know. I just have the feeling from my limited interactions that the principal doesn't care. They all went to Illinois State and that's good enough for them, so why be uppity about it? What would ever be the need -- isn't everything available here in IL? This is exactly the mindset I encountered as a hs student in MO (between Wash U, St. Louis U and Mizzou, what more could you ever want in life?) and it's so annoying and provincial to me.</p>
<p>A dd of a friend of mine was interested in education and had expressed interest in NU. One of the teachers told her not to bother, why bother going to NU if you could just go to Illinois State if you want to be a teacher. My friend was appalled that a teacher said this to her. Money was not an object; if her dd was interested in NU (which has a school of education), how dare a teacher suggest that NU's utility was merely what the future salary of a teacher was.</p>
<p>You asked how you can change the culture. You (wisely) see that with the incoming guidance person, you may have a great opportunity, one that you want to capitalize on in changing the culture.</p>
<p>I think one thing you might want to do, if you haven't already, is join the PTA or PTSA and let that group know that you are interested in helping kids broaden their college searches. This is something a committee within the PTA can take on. Surely there are some other parents who want their kids to consider the breadth of schools out there; you can find them by doing some networking. I don't know that I'd phrase it as "broadening their college searches," however. I think I'd simply say "helping with college searches" or "providing college information" or some such.</p>
<p>You (collectively) can donate books on the college search to the school (CTCL, for example), create a website that points to useful sources of information (such as CC!), and hold a college fair. </p>
<p>It may be that colleges don't visit your school because they haven't been invited to do so. You can change that.</p>
<p>You are helping guidance in this; you are their ally, and that is how you want to present yourself to them. Getting greater parental involvement is something most schools desire, and here's a way to bring parents in.</p>
<p>Does your school have a gifted or honors track? Does it have AP or IB courses? If so, the parents of the kids on that track/taking those courses are your natural audience. Not that you should stop there, but those parents are a good place to start.</p>
<p>If your school doesn't already have a Yahoo! Group or message board or other communication tool for your PTA and/or for that group of parents, start one. If you need specific help/suggestions for doing so, PM me; am happy to help/suggest.</p>
<p>This is a great time to make the change, and your desire to seize the moment to effect change is commendable. You can do this!</p>
<p>I understand your frustration. Is there a PTA in your school? The Belmont, MA high school has a very active PTA (I linked some of its materials on the bedding thread in the Cafe several years ago). The PTA could serve as a source of information.</p>
<p>btw, a 6th grade teacher at our old k-8 school has a BA from Tufts and a Ph.D. from Harvard; my Ss had student teachers from Princeton, Georgetown, Harvard. One of S's Harvard chum is currently doing her practicum at her old (public, diverse) school.</p>
<p>Similar things have occurred this year at our school, many holes in the process. Not sure if any remember my d disaster earlier in the year, but her experience took me down a path I never expected. My d's experience was not the only one. The GC was up for tenure, did not get tenure over the MANY flubs that were made and not only with my d. As of March their was one kid who had NO applications sent.
What I learned from this was as the parent you or a hired private is the only way to ensure all that is done will be done.
If your school does not have a profile, or an adequate one, demand one is produced. You can google some of the privates and pull up their profiles, it amazes me or rather enlightened me how very well those kids are represented to a school.
Grade distributions, examine the weighting of grades that is done, you would be amazed the disparity among schools. For instance ours does not weigh honors at all, only AP. It seems from my looking at it, it makes the lower achieving students "look" better than the higher achieving, and I believe that is the reason why, for political passing of the astronomical budgets the schools want to pass. "98% of our students attend college" mantra.No mention of the level of schools they are by the way 70% would be CC. They do not mention at all the socioeconmic aspect, (our school in our district) is the ESL school that all the kids from 3 other HS come from, which should be reflected on the profile, but again, is strategically left off. So to a college looking at our profile it looks like a very wealthy upper middle class environment, yet in reality the school environment is anything but that.
Ask if no ranking would be included, if a school does not represent the higher achieving students by distinguishing grades between basic math versus honors math then ranking should NOT be part of the transcript, a 90 in honors English is still much more difficult than a 99 in regular till you get to AP level I don't care what school you go to. At our school a 92 in AP english (about 12 (5-6 page) research papers done in 11th grade) is less valuable than a 93 in regular English(one 4 page research paper that they have 9 months to write)</p>
<p>I worked my tail off at my oldest son's high school to change some of the culture regarding college counseling. Did not get very far. Much of it is that the families and kids tend to want to go where people they know go. So getting beyond that circle is very, very difficult. I worked individually with a few kids after S graduated and tried to broaden the circle. Did so in terms of consideration, but when it came time to the choices, they went with the familiar.</p>
<p>Got a taste of my own medicine by the way, this year. I would have loved for my son to have gone to his reach school which was also a good financial choice and also a popular choice around here. The momentum, peer pressure, prestige pressure, everything was for him to go there. But he was in love with a small school few people here even know that was across the country. That is where he is going, but I am licking some wounds here. So I well know how difficult it is to go against the grain. My brother is incredulous that H and I are not pushing him to go the obvious choice.</p>
<p>A good high school profile is critical. When my son was a freshman at his new-ish private high school, I volunteered to update the school profile, which was inadequate. (Yes, even at private high schools, college counseling can be sub-par.) Perhaps you could volunteer to review your HS's profile. </p>