Guidance Counselor Blues

Parents Forum
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<p>I skimmed the 4 pages of posts to see if any other school counselors had responded and no one had, so I'll give it a go. I'm a lowly public high school counselor (we're actually called school counselors, not guidance counselors these days) in VT with a caseload of about 230 students grades 9-12. I really enjoy the college counseling pieces of my job, although that's only one part of what I do. I read up a lot on current admissions trends, attend the info sessions for counselors in our area (mostly sponsored by the state schools), and try my hardest to visit several colleges each year. This year I went on a 4 college tour for school counselors in MA that included Emerson, Babson, Holy Cross, and WPI. In addition I have a son who's a freshman at Franklin Olin College of Engineering and a daughter who's a high school junior, so I really am living the college admissions experience. I work at the same school as my kids. My daughter and I spent part of our April vacation visiting Macalester, Carleton, and St. Olaf in Minn.</p>

<p>So here are some of my thoughts for making the most of your school counselor:
1. Really try to establish a relationship with your son/daughter's counselor. Start this in the freshman year and keep building. I love it when a parent calls and asks to meet with me concerning the admissions process. In a perfect world I'd call all of my parents of juniors and see how I can help, but in reality this doesn't always happen. I do meet with juniors to take notes on what their planning.<br>
2. Don't just look at what schools students will be attending, but look beyond to where they were accepted. Last year, for instance, the valedictorian of my son's class was accepted at Cornell, Brown, and Tufts, but he chose to attend the University of Vermont because he was awarded a full tuition scholarship and couldn't pass it up. This year one of our top students will be attending Hamilton, after passing up offers at Boston College, Colby, Bates, and several others. Another student will be attending Oberlin after getting accepted at 8 or 9 other great schools.<br>
3. Accept that some students truly want to stay close to home. I happen to be the parent of two kids who want out of VT, but many with whom I work are first generation college students and simply want to stay close to home. For these students, staying in-state is often the best choice and the most comfortable for them.
4. Please don't look to us for a definitive list of schools. It's most helpful when I can pass on a name of an alum who's attending a school for the student to email. I can make some gentle suggestions if pushed, but I'm really reluctant to go that way. That's something private counselors or full-time college counselors can do better. There are thousands of schools out there that get little press but might be great for our students.
5. Feel free to ask to see the school's profile. I don't have a problem with anyone looking at it - most students and parents have no idea it even exists. If something looks misrepresented, feel free to nicely point it out.</p>

<p>Guess that's all for now. Just keep in mind that we all try to do our best but we're only human!</p>

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<p>"Just keep in mind that we all try to do our best ...."</p>

<p>Exactly, and that's the problem the OP has postulated. In each school the GC some schools the GC (or SC, whatever) has a set of responsibilities assigned by school administrators. I asked my niece, an SC at an inner city school, how much time she spent on college guidance. "Zero, but I hope to spend more time next year." On the other hand the GC at D's competitive private HS spent time making sure each student had a reasonable array of matches, safeties, and reach schools.</p>

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<p>There is a world of difference when there are GC specified for college counseling. A jack of all trades just has so much happening. How can you balance teen pregnancy, drop out, drug abuse, mood disorders, discipline issues,etc, etc with selecting a pathway to college and picking colleges? So difficult to do. Especially with so many students. The top public schools here and the privates I know have a counselor for 75 kids for college counseling, some even fewer. And non college issues go to a psychologist and other guidance personnel. When there are so many kids to a counselor and he has to do so many other things, I would suggest getting a private college counselor if it can be afforded.</p>

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<p>Districts in our area offer an info session for the college process during junior year for parents at the home assoc. meeting and for kids and parents during the day. They also hand out a booklet about the school's procedures. They assume that parents will be responsible for overseeing the process for their own kids. It is unfortunate for first generation kids whose parents don't usually have a clue or sometimes the interest due to other concerns in many cases.</p>

<p>I must say that parents in our area often choose a nearby location and modest cost of attendance over prestige. Many of our top kids go to state schools. I would not necessarily assume this is due to poor counseling but a considered choice on their part. Prestige in real life is often less of a consideration than many on this forum assume I think.</p>

<p>I wonder if the gas crunch will even further influence location choices in the coming year.</p>

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<p>lots of questions: Thanks for your post, which provides perspective on the GC position at many schools.</p>

<p>Yes, the roles a GC must fulfill vary widely, as does the workload. But unfortunately, from the mere fact that the HS staff includes a GC whose main (or only) job is college counseling, you can't presume good, or even adequate, college counseling services. Even at a small, private HS with a designated college counseling professional, college counseling services can be stunningly bad.</p>

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<p>Absolutely, Wjb. Everyone, student, parents, should take responsibility of knowing what is out there and seeking it. You can lose out going with one of those ultra expensive private counseling services too, if you can't get someone who understand the student's desires. If your student is knowledgeable and motivated, he can get a wealth of info even from a GC that is not that great. Our public school that had the limited counseling for college was the best source for the public unis and some of the local schools. You might find that a GC who is overall not very helpful has a treasure of niche in a particular school or group of schools. A lot of it learning to use the what you have at hand, including the school GC.<br>
I know several families who are quite upset at the services received from private counseling services. So you can get quite a variance in quality anywhere.</p>

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<p>S1's school has a list of Qs for the student and a separate list for parents to complete for the GC as part of the process of writing the rec letter. Ironically, they do this because the school is so huge. Not sure what S2's school has to offer (guess we'll find out over the next year), but I plan to use that format again if the second school isn't so forthcoming.</p>

<p>GC asked who S was using for recs; she questioned his choices (thought he should have asked a math teacher), but he had two external refs who could speak to the math. He wanted teachers who knew him very, very well and had arranged recs by the end of junior year. </p>

<p>GC looked over S's list, was pleased that he had several excellent schools that were not among the usual suspects (and even more delighted when he turned down the one everyone assumed he'd attend), and questioned the presence of one school. She gave him a couple of handouts re: relative selectivity of schools by department and a few other things, but nothing we didn't already know (or have more current info regarding) from our web research and CC. We found the GC most useful as a resource for asking about whether to disclose certain info (for example -- illness in the family, grade skips, drop in grades, explanation of one course choice vs. another, ADD, etc.) and what the repercussions might be -- but that is very much dependent on your relationship with the GC and how much you trust that person's judgment. </p>

<p>Pizzagirl, you're already ahead of the game by being here. One suggestion: Ask your school for a copy of the School Profile that they send to colleges, along with whatever other info they provide re: course offerings, special programs you students may be enrolled in, etc. We found that info VERY enlightening. If your school has Naviance, the scattergrams are great -- as long as the GCs maintain them and students report their info.</p>

<p>If anyone wants the questionaires the GCs use, PM me and I can dig them up.</p>

<p>S dropped in on his GC a lot during senior year to chat, update her on various activities, etc. I am confident she wrote an excellent letter that reflected who he is, but we were also mindful that she has many kids to advise, and many with problems far more serious than choosing among a fine array of colleges, so we were careful not to demand any more of her resources than absolutely necessary. All of his forms went out on time, none were lost, and he had great results. However, we knew that the bulk of the work would be incumbent upon S and us. This was fine! It has been a wonderful, eye-opening, exhilarating ride.</p>

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<p>Lotsofquestions:</p>

<p>Thank you for your very helpful post. Our GCs seem to have caseloads similar to yours (~250 each). They follow their students from freshman to senior year and obviously do far more than college counseling. I've been told that the quality of advice they give varies, but my Ss have had fabulous GCs (in a public high school).
I agree that it would be most helpful to find out to which colleges students have been admitted rather than which ones they will attend. But even the list of schools to which students are admitted from our school does not list the number of students admitted at each. I'd love to see a list similar to the one you suggest, with number of admits from the school, and over a 3 or 5 year period.
Finally, while it is a great idea for students and their families to set up appointments with the GCs, many first-generation college students and their families don't know how early the process needs to start. My own preference would be for a general meeting to beheld by the GCs some time during the sophomore year to discuss PSAT, the timing and types of SAT, ACT, SAT-subject tests, college visits, etc... In my experience, meetings such as these are a wake-up calls for students and parents to set up individual appointments with the GC.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
S1's school has a list of Qs for the student and a separate list for parents to complete for the GC as part of the process of writing the rec letter. Ironically, they do this because the school is so huge.

[/quote]
Our school is much the same. Because it's so large they've got the process streamlined and it really works quite well. The counselors meet in groups with the kids early spring of junior year and give them a questionnaire - parents fill out part of it, the kids the rest. They talk then about the general timeline. In April they have a big college night and during the day a college fair. There are about eight sessions in the evening with topics like "Selective College Admissions", "The Liberal Arts College", "Engineering and Science", "New York Colleges", "Public Universities" and at least one session aimed at Hispanic parents. You can pick two of the sessions, there are 6 to 8 college reps at each of these sessions. There's a separate evening event that goes over financial aid, and there's also usually one PTA meeting where the counseling department covers what they do (not just college admission discussion at that one, but it is addressed.) In the late spring they try to have a meeting with the parents and come up with a tentative list. Our son's list was okay, though we added WPI and Harvey Mudd and chose fewer of the less techie places. But it was a perfectly reasonable starting place. Our son's GC was new to the school, which was a disadvantage, but very nice, she seemed to know our son pretty well all things considering (he'd gotten on her computer and arranged his course schedule much faster than she could impressing her earlier in the year!) They also installed the Naviance software, but they've either dropped the Scattergrams or I don't have access because my son has graduated. They do publish a list of where kids got accepted (without numbers except one year). Lots of kids do end up at State Universities, but a good number end up at various LACs, private universities and out of state universities. We are in an area where a fair number of parents are originally from other states, so that probably helps in that regard. I could also share the questionaire via PM, I think it's in my computer.</p>

<p>Oh and I'll add they do talk at least some about college planning in sophomore year (mostly in terms of course selection) and take the PSAT for practice.</p>

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<p>Even a counselor who knows the kids well should have a sheet prepared by students and parents with info. You never know when you will get writer's block, and there is often info that the gc just does not know that could be relevant.</p>

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<p>Read this article before you go on with discussion. California education is hurting. Plight</a> of school counselors : Local News : Ventura County Star</p>

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<p>I've known some private schools that have gone the route of "mentoring", giving kids a teacher and an older student to be their guides. Instead of GCs there are psychologists to deal with mood disorders, behavior, LDs, etc. They found that this worked better.</p>