Guidance Counselors

<p>How much influence do guidance counselors have with colleges? Is it common for a guidance counselor to call a college and ask for a favor to admit a certain student. I am interested in opinions of school counselors as well as private counselors who charge megabucks and claim that their students were admitted to schools that were above and beyond their reach. They had the "pull" to get them in.</p>

<p>Most private counselors are invisible and would never contact a school on a client's behalf. There are school counselors however, who have relationships at some college admisions offices. I don't think it's about favors, but they work with admissions people they have relationships with to help them "appreciate" candidates.</p>

<p>Some counselors at private high schools seem to have built up positive relationships over the years but they probably have sent wonderful students to the school who have proven themselves. It is more difficult at public schools as the ratio of students to counselors is huge. I don't believe pull can get a non qualifying student in. I do believe if they are full paying students they can have an edge but they still have to be a good fit for the school.</p>

<p>I don't think that it's really a matter of private counselors having "pull" to get a kid in as much as private counselors understanding what the colleges want and "packaging" a kid to get him or her in. Sometimes, it's pretty dishonest because the admitted student is wholly manufactured, so to speak. Other times, it isn't. The kid is EXACTLY what a top school is looking for, but the high school guidance counselor hasn't a clue as to what the college is looking for and fails to mention his or her selling points. </p>

<p>This is an old, but true, story. There's an EC which many kids at my kids' public high school do. So do many kids from a very, very expensive private school. The director of the program was asked by one of the kids from the private school to write a rec for him. The director called the school and said he was willing to write such a letter, but he really didn't know how to write it. The college advisor suggested that he write a draft, bring it in, and they'd go over it together. So, he did. He went in and the guidance counselor revised it. Rec sent off; student got in. Much rejoicing. </p>

<p>Word that the director had done this got out and more students started to ask director for recs. Each time the college advisor reviewed the letter, but as time went on, fewer revisions were necessary. </p>

<p>Eventually, one of the kids from my kids' public high school asked for rec. Director called GC and asked her to review his letter before it was sent off. She basically let him know she didn't meet with people after school hours and he could write whatever he wanted. So, following what he'd learned from the private school advisor, he wrote a rec. Kid got in. </p>

<p>Two or three weeks later, the director got a thank you note from the dean of admissions. The note said that the candidate had been a borderline case. The only thing in the file that made him come across as a real person was the director's letter. It was the only thing that addressed some obvious concerns raised by the applicant's record. The fact that the director dealt with these issues and argued why the candidate should be admitted despite them changed the vote. But for the director's letter, the candidate would not have been admitted. The dean said LORs from the high school rarely said much more than "John was in my class and earned an A-. He is a nice young man and I think he would be a good addition to your class. " The dean went on to say something like this: "You obviously know these kids well and are willing to tell us the truth about them, warts and all. Should any other kids from your program apply to our school, especially those from __ public high, please write to us again. The kind of information you provided is very important to us."</p>

<p>The private schools tell THE TRUTH. That means if a kid is a genius, but disorganized, they say so. If a kid is a snob, they say so. Public schools are so afraid of getting sued that they rarely say anything negative. </p>

<p>Moreover, if a kid from Old Town Public High hasn't applied to Harvard in 10 years, nobody at Harvard has a relationship with the guidance ounselor. If Widget Independent Day School sends 10 kids a year to Harvard and the GC tells you that despite less than stellar grades, young Anthony is a really nice kid and genuinely intellectually curious but just matured late and FINALLY has his act together, you'll believe him. Because if he sells you Anthony--not as a "favor" but as someone whose stats don't tell the whole story--and Anthony is a dud, then the WI Day School GC knows Harvard is going to let in few if any kids form Old Widget next year.</p>

<p>Appreciate all your answers.</p>

<p>Question: A "well packaged" student would/could get a SAT boost of ??? points and a boost of ??? grades. In simpler terms, how much is this "packaging" worth. Would a "packaged" student with 1400 SAT's be looked at by colleges with the 1500 candidates? Is there a correlation?</p>

<p>I will quote an old friend here re: the GC and expectations...."Never expect anything....you'll never be disappointed and you'll usually be right."</p>

<p>Smiles, I wouldn't look at application packaging in that way - At the most selective schools, MOST students, unless they have some amazing hook (URM, national talent, athlete) will not be bumped up if they don't have the grades and SAT scores to begin with. However, students with a good and consistent application package are probably more likely to be chosen if there is a choice between two students with SIMILAR academic stats. Consider it the same as someone putting together a solid resume when applying for a job - the best, most impressively put together resume isn't going to get you the job if you don't have the skills necessary to do the job.</p>

<p>It is not necessary to hire a counselor if the parent and child are willing to do the research and put in the work to tailor the application not only to show off strengths BUT to tailor the application to the specific college itself. In fact, I have heard many admissions officers say they can spot a "professionally prepared" package from a hired gun a mile away and its a definite turnoff.</p>

<p>I only recently joined this forum and I feel as if all I do is disagree. Please believe that I'm not doing so just to argue. I just think this is untrue. </p>

<p>"Packaging" isn't something you can equate with X# of SAT points. It's certainly the case that SOME packaging can be spotted. But if you think it all can..well, I just don't. Moreover, if do want someone to package your kid, the earlier you get in touch with one of the GOOD admissions counselors, the better.</p>

<p>I forget his name--a senior moment!--but the president of Amherst (a long time ago, not the current one) said he could take any 9th grader with a butterfly collection and get him into any college in the country. I think that's still true if you've got someone who knows how to work the system. But note that he didn't say a senior with a butterfly collection! </p>

<p>I know of a kid from Nowherevile High School who was admitted early to one of the top colleges in the nation. I also know--the school doesn't--that despite the fact he went to a rural high school, his college essays were edited by an excellent college advisor at one of the top private schools in the state. That school is half a day's drive from where the applicant attended high school. Now this was a great kid. Instead of spending $ on SAT prep-- since the kid was likely to get a great score and the parents were savvy enough to know that a score above 1500 from a rural school would be impressive--the parents spent the money on the college advisor at the private school who freelanced helping with college essays. </p>

<p>That's the only packaging the kid did. But the advisor ripped apart the essays the kid had planned to submit. The kid got an early acceptance from a top school with a note scrawled across it saying something like "Loved your essay about x!!!" </p>

<p>Forgive me if I'm cynical, but I personally think the parents spent the money very wisely and I don't think the college had a clue that the <em>star</em> of Nowhereville High had gotten help with the essay. Don't misunderstand. The advisor did NOT write the essay. She only let him know that the essays he planned to admit were trite and then helped him brainstorm about things he could write about. After he wrote new essays, she helped edit them. In other words, she simply charged his parents a fee to give him the same sort of help she gave the students where she works. Except, of course, collleges know that students at the school where she works get that sort of help and wouldn't know that a student at his rural high school did too. </p>

<p>The following year, I knew a kid who applied early to another top college. Long story, but I happened to know someone who worked in admissions there. Stats were higher, school and parents were poorer than in my previous example. Kid, first in his class of over 800, ended up at his flagship state U. So, knowing the kid and knowing someone at the school which rejected him early, I asked. HOW COULD YOU REJECT THIS KID? My friend checked the record. Answer. Both readers thought his essays were "boring" and "immature." </p>

<p>So, yes, I think you can package kids. I think the radar for packaging is lower when it's a kid from a background which makes packaging unusual. I don't think you can take that sow's ear and make it into a silk purse, but some caterpillars become butterflies and some never emerge from the cocoon.</p>

<p>And whoever said the best private counselors never contact the college is right. The counselor who helped brainstorm and edit essays for my young friend from a rural high school would never ever dream of letting any school that her private clients got a little help along the way.</p>