GWU Expelled Depressed Student who Sought Help

Parents Forum
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<p>GWU Suit Prompts Questions Of Liability
School Barred Depressed Student</p>

<p>Source: <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/09/AR2006030902550.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/09/AR2006030902550.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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About 2 a.m. one sleepless night, sophomore Jordan Nott checked himself into George Washington University Hospital.</p>

<p>He was depressed, he said, and thinking about suicide.</p>

<p>Within a day and a half of arriving there, he got a letter from a GWU administrator saying his "endangering behavior" violated the code of student conduct. He faced possible suspension and expulsion from school, the letter said, unless he withdrew and deferred the charges while he got treatment.</p>

<p>In the meantime, he was barred from campus.

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<p>you're kidding me. Is this a joke? He was seeking help and they take action by expelling him for doing so? My goodness what has this world gone to?</p>

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<p>The article made me very glad that my daughter dropped GWU from her list after visiting last fall.</p>

<p>You'll note if you read the full article that one of the reasons the kid was depressed was that so many other GWU students, including his best friend, had committed suicide during his freshman year.</p>

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<p>This is an amazing and sad story. University is big business the student is not an individual because they have thousands of others to fill the spot once the admitted student proves to be flawed! All they want is your money.This is scary!!OMG
I would not go near that school ever!!!</p>

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<p>I don’t know what’s going on here, but I just want to encourage everyone not to judge this school too fast and too harshly. I can see things from both sides of this issue, since I have been on both sides of it. I suspect this kid has something of a history of bad run-ins with the school’s authorities, all perhaps due to his condition. In my own case, I was able to pretty much keep to myself and gut it out, but one thing I have to admit—I was always just a hairbreadth away from cashing in. I was also very much given to self-pity and blaming everything on being “depressed” or on “stuff out of my control.” I never said anything, and probably only a few suspected what I was going through, but I remember at the time that I had a deep wish that pretty much EVERYBODY would coddle me, that they would understand and basically act like how I thought my mom should have acted. If this kid is going through this, then I know he is in a serious and endless pit from which he likely will not be able to escape on his own. </p>

<p>BUT… And I don’t mean to sound harsh. </p>

<p>What in the world is a university to do with this? It has a job to do for a lot of students and I am not sure it should be saddled down with the obligation of mothering a bunch of sick kids. It just seems reasonable that it would require the sick student to withdraw until his illness was fixed. Even if its motive is to make space for other students isn’t this legitimate, especially since some hardworking and eager student can benefit forever from this? Maybe the school could have been kinder and not have BANNED the sick student. But c’mon, it could very well be that the boy was a danger to himself and to others and maybe had somehow caused in school officials a desire to just have him go home and get the mothering it was unprepared to give.</p>

<p>A few years ago I met this guy, about 30 years old. Nice guy. He had taken off school because of similar problems. He also blamed others for everything. Nice guy, though. We talked for hours, and I could see he just wanted someone to lean on. So, I basically let him lean on me. Well, soon he started calling my home. We’d talk on the phone a long time each call. It soon got to be a problem because, you know, I have a family. I’m still friends with the guy, but eventually I started just wishing he would disappear because he became a real drain on me. I eventually told him as gently as I could that he just needed to grow up and realize that the world is not just gonna stop and wait for him to get his act together. He is just gonna have to sink or swim. He chose to swim and is really doing well! But here is the thing: I never let the guy get within ten miles of my family. I was always concerned about him because I knew I was ill-equipped to handle a mental case around my wife and kids. So I can REALLY identify with GWU. I hope they don’t lose this lawsuit because it would mean universities and other institutions are going to be forced by law to provide what I think only we can really provide.</p>

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<p>My kids' private high school did the same thing to a student several years ago. She was complaining about being depressed, said she occasionally felt like killing herself, and in just a few days she was dismissed from school. There had been some academic problems -- basically she was getting exhausted over-studying each subject.
After that incident, I told my kids that if they had a problem, they should NOT go to the school's counselor or anyone associated with the school; they should please come to me and I would arrange private help. A disheartening situation.</p>

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<p>Is it possible that the school's actions led to his successful transfer to UMD? That maybe he did need that time away to address his mental health? It's a reach to say "all they want is your money" because this was never about filling his spot with another student. </p>

<p>His treatment does seem harsh, but what is a school supposed to do - everything in their power to prevent the student from committing suicide, and then try to get them help. Consider this: if your son or daughter were roommates with a suicidal student, would you want the hospital to release him back to the dorm? </p>

<p>It sounds like it was a definite low point but that the student has taken back the reins of his life. If his suit is an attempt to get GWU to improve their treatment of students, it's worthwhile IMO.</p>

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<p>Is it possible that the school's actions led to his successful transfer to UMD? *
I wouldn't say that it was that successful- instead of being where he wanted to be, he is now just trying to get through school as fast as he can.
*His treatment does seem harsh, but what is a school supposed to do - everything in their power to prevent the student from committing suicide, and then try to get them help
They are supposed to have health resources to help students, whether for mental or physical problems. IF there is an emergency they should respond and if the student needed to be hospitalized, then he should be evaluated before he was released or transfered- but- once he was released- if a program of care was found, then he would resume attending classes or take a voluntary leave if the doctors and student determined that was best, or an involuntary leave if he refused, but upon completion of involuntary leave, after appropriate evaluation, would be allowed to resume studies.</p>

<p>this student was already at risk just because of his friendship with another student who completed suicide, that IMO compounds the mess of the way this was handled.</p>

<p>A 2004 article discusses 5 GWU student deaths in as many months.It sounds like they have been attempting to improve services for the past few years, wonder why it doesn't seem to be that effective?<a href="http://www.thehoya.com/news/043004/news6.cfm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thehoya.com/news/043004/news6.cfm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>An ironic piece here is that GWU grad counseling programs are known and respected...</p>

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<p>I went to grad school in psychology at GWU, and also worked at the counseling center, so I have a lot of respect for the psychology services there.</p>

<p>From what's in the article, it looks like the student was suicidal and greatly in need of treatment. After all, it is a very serious step to be so afraid that one might commit suicide that one checks into a hospital to prevent that. </p>

<p>The young man also was at great risk because of what had happened to his friend there in 2004, Nott's freshman year:</p>

<p>"But it was a tough year for GWU, with several sudden student deaths. One evening in April, near the end of the semester, a freshman jumped from the fifth floor of a dorm.</p>

<p>He was one of Nott's closest friends; they had planned to room together sophomore year.</p>

<p>When he jumped, the complaint says, Nott and two others were trying to open his locked door to help.</p>

<p>In fall 2004, when Nott came back to school, he started feeling depressed, he said. He kept thinking about how his friend had died.</p>

<p>In September, another student committed suicide...."</p>

<p>Based on the story, there was every evidence that Nott when he checked into the hospital was in a severe depression and was at great risk of suicide. What would one want GWU to do? From the story, Nott doesn't sound like he was in shape to be going to class and living in a dorm or just having outpatient treatment at the campus counseling center. He sounds like he was in severe need of help.</p>

<p>Consequently, the university's best options probably were to do whatever it took to make him go back home and get treatment. His roommates and GWU couldn't be expected to keep tabs on a sucidial student. </p>

<p>If my son were in that kind of crisis, I would not want the university to allow him to stay in the dorm. I would want them to do whatever it took to get him back home so he could be supervised by family -- responsible adults who knew him well -- and so I could get him whatever intensive treatment he needed. </p>

<p>As for the slew of student suicides, every time there's a suicide on campus, that puts other students at risk. Students feel guilty or are inspired to think that suicide is the way to solve their problems. The college may have excellent mental health services, but preventing suicides after some have happened, becomes increasingly difficult.</p>

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<p>I don't know enough about the case but I do agree with Northstarmom that this student who is in danger and suicidal and not only depressed, and enough to seek hospitalization and given the history, is best served by getting treatment and help at home where he is more closely supervised until which time he moves past a crisis stage and gets treatment. However, I would HOPE that the college gave the student a leave of absence due to his illness and that he is welcomed to begin again when he is ready, as determined by professionals who treat him.</p>

<p>I'd like to add that if this student had stayed and God forbid went through with a suicide, many would rush to condemn the school for not having prevented it given he had come to them for treatment. The threat of such suits is high. </p>

<p>I do think the school should try to help the student and perhaps their way of helping can be to talk to a family about taking a leave and seeking the required treatment. It is in the best interests of the student to find a solution.</p>

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<p>If the depression/suicidal thoughts were ONLY revealed within the context of a confidential medical or psychological relationship, that information could not legally have been released to the school for administrative or judicial purposes.
Often, however, as has been suggested by others, a student who is comtemplating suicide engages in more public, non-confidential behavior that is disruptive to the residential or learning community. It can be very difficult for a college or university to compassionately move the student to a more therapeutic environment while also supporting the learning environment of his/her friends and classmates.</p>

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<p>Since GW doesn't have the ability to act as the parent, and since this student is a junior, and therefore probably not a minor, I am not sure what option the University had. As some of the other posters have said, what were they supposed to do? They can't involuntarily commit the student, yet they're prohibited from sharing everything with the parents. I think an expulsion or suspension was probably their only recourse, since this would result in the parents getting involved. </p>

<p>For all of you who have never dealt with suicide from the university's point of view, I ask you to be a little understanding of the university's situation. There are strong legal barriers and issues that all universities have to deal with. </p>

<p>One extremely major point that hasn't been mentioned yet is the possibility of a suicidal student deciding to take out others with him. I don't think that's a possibility that any university should ignore.</p>

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<p>A friend of my son's was asked to take a leave of absence when she became suicidal towards the end of first semester. The school arranged for her to complete her classes independently for the first semester and she was out of school all 2nd semester. She wanted to return 2nd semester but they refused. She came back 1st semester the following year.</p>

<p>My son thought it was harsh, but he also talked about how worried he had been about her. He had been extensively monitoring her for 3 days before he finally convinced her to go to the hospital. It is too much to ask of kids to take this kind of responsibility. And I agree, if the student ends up commiting suicide, the school is seen as being at fault. The schools can't win.</p>

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<p>the student could have been placed on a voluntary or involuntary leave before the decison was made to expel him.</p>

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<p>As well, they may be looking out for the welfare of the other students who would be greatly affected by the suicide of a fellow student. As you can see, even THIS student is now greatly affected by the suicides of his friends on campus.</p>

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<p>I also agree with Emeraldkity that a leave is far more appropriate than an expulsion but I don't know the full story.</p>

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<p>Shennie, while not the same as depression or suicide issues, my D has a friend at her college who is on leave due to another disorder. She was unable to finish first semester (this is her senior year) and I believe is finishing up that coursework independently with extensions having left for treatment. She did not return this semester but I believe will do so next year to finish her final term at college. A leave is what I feel is appropriate in these situations.</p>

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<p>The University may not have had any other legal recourse, but I think that they may need a little sensitivity training. It would appear that there would be a better way to put it than to threaten with expulsion and indicate that he would be charged with trespassing if entered the dorm to retrieve his belongings. Going home and getting treatment probably was the best thing for this student, but telling someone who has a mental illness that they will be suspended or expelled for seeking treatment is just not appropriate. The University said that they were reviewing their policy---I think they need to.</p>

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<p>And it will have a chilling affect on people who are having mental problems and could make them decide not to seek treatment.</p>

<p>On the other hand, Pomona College had a professor who was stabbed by a mentally-ill student he was trying to help. . .</p>