That’s true. There is also a big difference between expats whose essential allegiance remains to the home country, and who expect their children to be educated there and to live there as a permanent home, and “expats” – immigrants – who do not plan ever to go back, and who expect their children to live where they are living now. It’s not so shocking if the former do not immerse themselves in the education system of their current country of residence.
One of the big ironies here is that a number of the Asian cultures from which many families come, and which many families seek to preserve to some extent, are openly racialist in ways that are shocking to that monolithic group we’ll call “Americans.” In most of Asia, race and ethnicity really really matter, to an extent that is barely conceivable to me. While I agree that discrimination against Asian applicants is absolutely contrary to United States values, discrimination against foreigners and indigenous ethnic groups is rampant throughout Asia. And some of the contempt for the Other that represents can find its way into Asian homes here, too.
Isn’t it true in most of the world that race and ethnicity (and often religion as well) are highly prominent factors (much more so than in the US) in the political and social aspects of societies?
Last year, I conducted a workshop for clients in Shanghai and then moved on to Tokyo the next week. (Indeed, I’m headed to Tokyo later on this week.) As part of the workshop, participants were creating skits to dimensionalize a specific situation / behavior. The Chinese openly mocked the Japanese and the Japanese openly mocked the Chinese. It was amazing to us, the American facilitators - as it was done with a real sense of mean-spiritedness as opposed to light-hearted joking (for example, if Americans made fun of Canadians saying “eh” or liking hockey). It was clear that there was still real animosity and that it was publicly OK to talk about such animosity.
“Expats to other countries seem to have cultural transmission vehicles so they can be made aware of differences and nuances.
This is laughable. How many expats do you know really?”
Dozens. Many of my clients are expats. Some of them are similarly placed to GMT insofar as they are American citizens who are doing placements in other countries for X years, but consider themselves ultimately rooted in America. Some, of course, are expats from, say, France or Spain to, say, Singapore or China. Many of my clients have a lot of international travel / living / experience under their belts.
This is absolutely true. My father would openly complain about discrimination at his work place, but at the same time, he would make racist remarks against non-Chinese. When I pointed it out to him, he would say, “There is a difference. What I am saying is true (blacks are this, Japanese are that, White people are this…). Treating me differently because I am Chinese is not right.”
I would just shake my head.
They are your work clients.That’s like saying you’ve been in a travel group with a group of foreigners, and after the brief holiday, you know them enough to make a blanket statement that they seem to have “cultural transmission vehicles.”
I find it incredulous that this forum tolerates Asian bashing and anti-Asian sentiments to this degree. There are dozens of threads on Asian parents and Asian students and they are projected in very negative light whereas no one dares to say the same about Jews or Africian-Americans or Hispanics. Most of these posters are of the ethnicity and religion that had been discriminated against in the US and their groups still practise exclusions and non-assimilations in the US. I am convinced that it is jealousy, insecurity and fear of displacement towards a group of newcomers that are competitive with them in jobs, college placements, social standings etc.
Let him without sin cast the first stone.
Are you kidding me? Have you read the threads about affirmative action?
But it is true that not many Jews, African-Americans or Hispanics come on CC to complain about their ill treatment by the college admissions system. That could explain some disparity in response.
@Hunt, you know exactly what I mean. The OP asks about a specific question and now Asians are accused of bring prejudice into their homes.
I recall you also started many threads on Asian gymnasts cheating …or Asian cheating. Expressing anti-Asian sentiments.
Yes, sustained, repetitive criticism of anything Asian is.
If you were to change your words from Asian to Jews, I am sure you would be accused of being anti-semitic.
cbreeze, I defy you to identify anything I’ve said in this thread that is “anti-Asian.” If you think that it’s untrue that Asian students are more likely to pursue STEM than white students, I’d be very interested in the facts that back up that opinion.
“I recall you also started many threads on Asian gymnasts cheating …or Asian cheating. Expressing anti-Asian sentiments.”
There was a scandal where parents were climbing up the walls of a school to help their kids cheat on national exams: http://■■■■■■■.com/njpjjj5
Is it discriminatory to bring that up, and also find it distasteful? Is it any more discriminatory to say that whites are still racist in the US because a guy who took 9th grade twice and dropped out of high school shot a bunch of African-Americans? Or that somehow a flag is responsible for it, not someone who is way off the normal path?
Back to the point about discrimination in admissions, I strongly would like to see if male and female Asians, and male and female Asians applying to different types of colleges or for different majors.
If a study showed that many male Asians are applying to engineering schools, and many get rejected, that should be compared to male whites and male African-Americans.
'"They are your work clients.That’s like saying you’ve been in a travel group with a group of foreigners, and after the brief holiday, you know them enough to make a blanket statement that they seem to have “cultural transmission vehicles.”
With all due respect, cbreeze, I’ve known some of my clients for a decade and have “followed” them through various assignments. I’m not making this assessment based on sitting in a meeting with someone for 3 hours and thinking I know everything about them.
“Most of these posters are of the ethnicity and religion that had been discriminated against in the US and their groups still practise exclusions and non-assimilations in the US. I am convinced that it is jealousy, insecurity and fear of displacement towards a group of newcomers that are competitive with them in jobs, college placements, social standings etc.”
Come out and say it. Your belief is that Jews are jealous of / afraid of Asians. Is that it? It would be better if you could just state your thesis directly, if that’s what it is.
Yes, I have often reported the NEWS that yet another SAT scandal took place in Asia, but I hardly created the news … or misreported it. It also happens that it was (more than is) a subject I followed closely. Astute observers will also note that there are other posters who report this news (see the SAT forum) including people who are living and tutoring in the precise areas where the cheating is (alas) prevalent.
And there are few “facts” worth noting that make the repeated accusations of racism by Cbreeze almost as silly as baseless. Facts such as having helped THOUSANDS of students who were overwhelmingly Asians to not only increase their scores on the SAT but also present a more compelling application. Very little of that might be tangible on the public forum, but I’ll take my “record” of testimonials and compare it to the ones who have been “vocal” about Asian racism but have done … little to nothing to actually help others with tangible and … pragmatic strategies and approaches.
The bottom line is that ALL of us want a system that is just and equitable. There are people who are trying to make positive changes by denouncing “stuff” like organized cheating on standardized testing and advocating for the abandonment of questionable procedures in certain countries. On this subject, Asians are their worst enemies and they should be on the forefront of combating the cheating instead of fostering it.
I make NO apologies for discussing the seedy side of an industry I happen to know very well and for relying on my own interactions of the many students I am accused to … I assume hate and want to discriminate again. Nor do I offer any apologies for writing about the misguided approaches in both overall education and objectives in certain groups of families. It that annoys some, so be it!
On the issue of presenting applications, it boils down to either endlessly complaining about the perversity of the system and calling people racist without any objective foundation or … finding ways to increase one’s chances with what people call “strategies” but maintaining one’s honesty. I prefer the latter!
I agree with this and I think nationalistic pride is partly to blame. Each country feels like what they have to offer is better than the other countries. I remember reading that during the Japanese tsunami Koreans shipped over tons of food and supplies, but the Japanese refused it. (@JHS, maybe you might have some insight as to why they would react that way). I also remember a story about Korean people setting themselves on fire during the World Cup in the name of Korean pride. Crazy! And lets not even get into the Israeli/Palestinian thing.
I guess I’m falling under the assumption that the US truly is a melting pot that is welcoming to all immigrants. That notion was highlighted for me when reading the “Immigrant” thread in the Paren Cafe and I thought it was a beautiful thing. As far as Asians in the US having contempt for “Others”, that may be true and it would be ignorant, but for me, two wrongs don’t make a right.
I think there is something of a internal conflict in the American attitude toward immigrants–Americans value diversity, but they also prefer to see significant assimilation. It’s obviously easier to assimilate if you look like the majority–you never hear about discrimination against the Irish, for example, although it was a big deal at one time. But the degree of cultural assimilation matters as well.
