Help! My DS is deciding between Bates and Hamilton, Oberlin and Bard. He also got into Franklin and Marshal. He loves theatre and is in the choir otherwise he has alot of interests which all these schools seem to fit into. He is a little worried that the Bates theatre program might not be strong enough although he is not majoring in theatre(probably) Thoughts?
Congrats to your family!
Oberlin and Bard - Awesome schools but they are clearly the most artistic and free spirited oriented type culture of the four.
Hamilton and Bates. Awesome mix of the all types of students and a bit more mainstream, comparatively.
I would say Bates - would be my selection based on your brief post.
But all are so good, it’s easy to see why it’s a hard choice!
Bates for the outstanding academics along with Hamilton and a bit of the artsy vibe that is part of its current scene.
Portland is a very hip coastal city near Bates and Hamilton is much more remote. That’s might be fun for your son to have access to as well as the campus.
But not the dominate the culture of the other two.
It’s your best mix. Hamilton a close second, if not the same. I could see choosing either.
My niece who want more of the other vibe chose Bard. Oberlin is well regarded as well. Its just a bit less known to me here in my New England bubble.
If your son would like a strong fine and performing arts veneer laid over his academic experience, then Bard might suit his desired atmosphere. Oberlin, a school similarly noted for its music conservatory, would offer a variation of this, but with broader underlying academic programs. Hamilton offers balance across academic disciplines, but nonetheless indicates an appreciation for performing arts through an incredible theatre and studio arts building near the center of campus. Bates offers a friendly campus, and compares fairly directly to Oberlin by student profile.
Have you visited all of these schools ? I suspect that you have not visited because Oberlin & Bard have very distinctive cultures and most would know whether or not either was a fit.
The primary issue with Bates College is the location.
Hamilton College has outstanding placement, while F&M is a very solid school academically.
Any significant cost difference among your options ?
Thanks! He has visited all of the schools Twice! Last night he said he wished he could find a school a similar distance to Hamilton, with Oberlin’s theatre, Bates people and Bards teaching. Or something along those lines. Hamilton was always his first pick but gave the least money and somehow his experience of the classes was not stellar. He found less interesting teaching a student engagement but they may have been a fluke. The teaching at Bard and Oberlin along with lively discussions impressed him! But the student body was a little less vibing with him. Loves Bates but theatre is old he says. And choirs are minimal. Oye! Most money from Bard but he is not convinced he fits the extreme liberal look. Although ideologically he is there.
Also, Though he has been a great student at a great public high school, we have always encouraged balance over extreme academia. I limited his APs and encouraged theatre lab over the IB program. ( I Know!) what kind of mother does that. So i am worried that at Bates, say, it will be all work and no play or clubs and hoping the academic support is atrong.
Also i would say he is interested in theatre, education, environmental studies, social and political issues, and is a sort of middle path fella with a fairly unique life( meditation, spiritual community, community oriented living)
Based on CDS stats, for high schools that provide the information, Bates enrolls 45.2% of its students from outside the top 10% of their HS classes, 11.3% from outside the top quarter, and 1.7% from outside the top half. On paper, this wouldn’t seem to contribute to an “all work and no play or clubs” environment. Bates’ SAT score profile also registers a bit lower than, for comparison, Oberlin’s.
If the primary attraction to Hamilton lies in its distance from home, then I’d recommend your son eliminate the choice. However, for students for whom the school would be the right fit, Hamilton would appear to be worth an extra cost: https://www.forbes.com/sites/nataliesportelli/2017/04/26/10-expensive-colleges-worth-every-penny-2017/. I would say though that, based upon your son’s deeper interests, he’d contribute a valuable perspective to the Hamilton community.
Only 21% of matriculants reported class rank, so one can’t draw meaningful conclusions about the general environment at Bates from those stats.
FWIW when I read post #6, Bates and Bard seem better fits, than Hamilton and Oberlin. But I believe OP’s S can find his peeps at any of those schools.
Bard has a wonderful choral program that many don’t know about. The head of the music department is James Bagwell, who is also the director of the The Collegiate Chorale. http://insigniaartists.com/james-bagwell/ The choirs get to sing with all three orchestras, as well as the American Symphony Orchestra.
Some of the opportunities for singing at Bard: Chamber Singers and Opera Workshop, Bard College Symphonic Chorus, & the Georgian Vocal Ensemble. As well as the A Cappella ensemble The Orcapelicans. Here’s the info on Bard’s Vocal Music program (in the college, not the grad program through the conservatory) https://music.bard.edu/classical-vocal-performance/
As for the vibe - not everyone is a hipster at Bard. Really. But he’s absolutely correct about the level of teaching and the engagement of the student body.
Definitely not a hard science guy! But thanks.
Lol. At this point i am like “oh Vassar would have been perfect!”
Thanks all. All these schools are stellar! He is very fortunate. Hopefully, he can come to a conclusion that fits. Each school has plusses and minus for him.
I agree with the early comments that Bard and Oberlin should probably be paired. And, based on subsequent comments, these colleges would seem to be his best fits. However, I suspect the decision will not be as simple as that . . .
Regarding, reply #8, there are several statistical factors that support the validity of the figures in #7. For one, standardized scoring across all schools comports to a strong degree with class rank. In the case of this group, it shouldn’t be surprising then that the CDS profiles for Bates and Oberlin, for example, register nearly identical figures for both class rank and standardized scoring. (Therefore, even though the class rank data itself is based on slim reporting, its validity appears supported by substantiating standardized scoring data across these and other schools.)
For his interests, I would pick Bard. He’ll get the richest experience in theater and choral music, and the academics are truly engaging.
There are a lot of kids there who are “mainstream” although I agree that the overall vibe of the school is less so.
My daughter has visited three of your son’s four top picks. (The one she has not is Bates.) For her, OBERLIN would be the clear choice.
Oberlin is a very vibrant community with clear strengths across the field academically and in the performing arts. There’s also that cool $5 art rental program…wow! Interesting living choices, food coops, ex-co classes some of them taught by students, the winter term program…my daughter considers all these things pluses.
Hamilton is a great school, the arts center is amazing, and it is considered a writer’s college. I also love that it is open curriculum. I found the dorms a little underwhelming, but overall a great choice.
Bard was one that looked great on paper for my daughter, but she found it uninspiring on the tour. Now, that could have just been a sign that we had a more laid-back tour guide…but other tours were far more effusive in articulating what is super cool about the school. We saw a couple classrooms and they were also not in great shape…though that could have been luck of the draw, and maybe there are nicer classrooms elsewhere.
Which ones? Hamilton offers 28 residence halls in a variety that may have no direct comparison at other colleges.
https://www.hamilton.edu/campuslife/where-to-live/residence-halls
Thanks all. Are there students from Bates or Hamilton on this forum? At this point for whatever reason he has ruled out Oberlin. Rather surprising as it was his top pick a few days ago. He is concerned about choir and theatre programs at Bates maybe not being as strong as he would like, though generally feels the school a good match.
@HCatmom, you might be best served by going to those schools’ forums and asking specifically about their theater and choral programs.
As you have probably noticed, folks have their favorites. And often, when people have experience with a school, it’s not with the programs that interest you.
While I thought Bard would be best for your kid, of these, my kid - no theater or choral music interest - looked at all of them and liked Bates best and Hamilton least. But that’s one kid with different tastes.
You might want to check IPEDS. For example, Bates indicates 5 theatre “first majors,” and 24 across visual and performing arts in general:
https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=Bates&s=all&id=160977#programs
Regarding his final few choices, if the stated draw for Hamilton relates primarily to proximity, why not choose from between Bard and Bates?
Btw, I agree that Hamilton offers an amazing variety of housing choices. For example, Wally J is available to first-years and houses 20 students:
https://www.hamilton.edu/campuslife/where-to-live/residence-halls/wally-j