Hamilton vs Carleton vs Grinnell

College Search & Selection
1

Hello! Among some other schools, Hamilton, Carleton, and Grinnell have admitted me for next year. But these three seem so similar and I would greatly appreciate CC’s insight.

(NOTE: Hamilton has admitted me as a Jan. Start and I’m intrigued by the program in London. I’m currently working on a contingency plan in case London is cancelled.)

I’d like to study public policy/international relations and psychology/neuroscience, which is partly why I love the open curriculums at Grinnell and Hamilton. I also enjoy how the trimester schedule at Carleton will ensure that I can deeply study material with only 3 classes at a time. Furthermore, I want to grow my relationship with the outdoors, journalism, and civic engagement wherever I attend.

As a potential political major, it’s important to me that I can talk and live with classmates of different backgrounds and ideals. But I’m concerned that a place like Grinnell/Carleton may be too homogenous, in terms of political ideology, to name one example. Similarly, I know that Hamilton struggles with diversity of race, as another example.

Socially, I wonder if I’d benefit from a more balanced culture like Hamilton’s (e.g. light side vs dark side) or a slanted one like Carleton or Grinnell’s, if these distinctions are accurate. I also wonder how these schools differ in terms of nightlife/social scene.

These schools seem to have superb programs for my majors, strong endowments to survive the coronavirus, and a strong quality of life, right? Are there any more distinctions that you can make between these schools, perhaps reputation-wise, student-body-wise, or student services-wise?

Where, ultimately, would you suggest that I attend out of these three?

2

Based on the depth of your interests, you would make a great addition to any of these academically top-notch schools.

With respect to your choice, Hamilton offers some programs that would align especially well for you. Hamilton is one of the very few liberal arts colleges that offer a major in public policy; similarly uncommonly, it offers a long-established term-length program in Washington, D.C.; and its especially flexible curriculum combined with the range of its available programs suits the diversity of your academic interests. For exploring the natural world, you could seek your inner Buck in the iconic Adirondacks (January admits participate in August orientation programs).

https://www.hamilton.edu/academics/departments/Home?dept=Public%20Policy

https://www.hamilton.edu/academics/offcampusstudy/washington-program

https://www.hamilton.edu/firstyear/orientation/trips/adirondack-adventure

3

You might want to look at this ranking, since studying social science areas such as international relations and public policy often involves courses in economics:

https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.uslacecon.html

4

I’m most familiar with Carleton because I’m an alum. I also have some familiarity with Grinnell. I know less about Hamilton.

First, all three are excellent schools. Is cost an issue? I’d give that a lot of weight in these times.

You are correct in that Carleton and Grinnell are very similar in terms of vibe and general campus culture. Both are VERY liberal, with Grinnell being a little more so. Less than 1 percent of students at these schools voted for Trump. If you supported Biden or Clinton in the '20 and '16 primaries, respectively, you’d be considered right of center at these schools. Even back in the 1980s, I remember a poll of one of the Carleton senior classes and more people supported socialism than capitalism. I have seen both schools on various “most liberal colleges in America”-type lists. Both are frequently on Princeton Review’s list of Most Liberal Students, whereas I can’t remember seeing Hamilton on that list (at least not recently). Both Carleton and Grinnell have also been mentioned in “best colleges for hippies”-type lists, whereas I don’t think I’ve ever seen Hamilton on those.

All three schools are majority white. I believe Grinnell is the most ethnically diverse of the three and Hamilton the least, but it’s not a super huge difference, at least according to figures I can find. Grinnell also has the most international students. I believe Grinnell is probably also the most socioeconomically diverse, but I could be wrong on that. Carleton and Grinnell have a large number of LGBT students (on the order of 25% to 35%). I don’t know what the numbers are at Hamilton. Hamilton is probably the most ideologically diverse and overall the most moderate, but all three colleges lean left. By the way, note that the countryside surrounding all three of these schools is actually a lot more conservative. If you make an effort to get “outside the bubble” of all these schools, you’ll discover quite a different cultural, political, religious and economic environment. All three colleges have roughly equal percentages of male-identifying and female-identifying students. Carleton probably has the most regional (geographic) diversity (when excluding foreign students).

My experience with psychology at Carleton was … not so good. However, that was mostly due to one professor who is no longer there.

I’ve heard positive things from a few people who did the neuroscience concentration/minor, including one of my former roommates who went on to get a PhD in the subject. There’s also a brand new science building on campus.

The political science department was home to two great luminaries: Paul Wellstone and Steven Schier, who represented different, complimentary, aspects of the field. Schier represented the intellectual side of the discipline, emphasizing rigor, research, data, analysis. Wellstone emphasized activism, involvement and civic engagement and the experiential, human side of the field. Schier has retired and Wellstone was killed in an airplane crash. I’m not sure how the deparment has faired without these two giants, but hopefully their spirits are still felt. There also used to be an off-campus studies program in D.C., but it doesn’t seem to be offered anymore.

5

Thanks so much for your responses, @hokupaa @merc81 @apple23 , Can you or someone also speak on the night-life/social gatherings and activities, especially considering that Ham has limited greek life while Grinnell and Carleton don’t…? Do you think that what was stated earlier about the student body plays a role in student activity?

6

@ilovemybed222: I’m not sure that college parties have changed that much through time. If you would like to explore a novel or film depicting Hamilton, read or watch The Sterile Cuckoo. Of course there’ll be many activities available to you aside from parties, but this will get you started with respect to atmosphere.

7

OP: I think that you are right to be attracted to a 3 course trimester system (Dartmouth College & Carleton College).

Obviously, Carleton College experiences the most severe weather of the three.

Hamilton’s January start is interesting, but London may well be cancelled if a second wave of coronavirus hits in the Fall as predicted.

8

Hamilton’s social atmosphere benefits from its spatial range. You will find three residential neighborhoods, each with its own architectural and social character. Hamilton also offers two main dining halls along with five other places to eat. By choosing where to eat and live, your social experiences will have desirably fluid aspects there. Another social aspect to consider might be gender ratio. Hamilton’s balance in its last enrolled class settled at 50/50.

9

Wait, three neighborhoods? I thought they were only two: light and dark side. Interesting…

When I think about it more, I think I like the open curriculum idea better because I can explore more subjects — And I know I have a lot of interests so that might be beneficial for me.

I would also like to learn more about reputation and how it relates to finding careers. Does one school have a better or at least distinctive one? What school’s name pulls the most weight?

10

Like quarks, Hamilton’s campus comes in three colors — light, dark and *grey/i.

Regarding post-graduation opportunities, you can check U.S. News for early career salary information. Hamilton graduates perform well in this area, registering the highest median figure from among the 10 NESCAC LACs.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/hamilton-college-2728

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/carleton-college-2340

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/grinnell-college-1868

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nataliesportelli/2017/04/26/10-expensive-colleges-worth-every-penny-2017/

11

Our S19 was admitted to all three schools last year. You have some good info above but I do not agree that Carleton and Grinnell are super liberal. We visited both campuses twice. We found kids really mainstream. Nothing like a place like Oberlin where we thought it was teeming with social justice warriors. I would not call Grinnell or Carleton any more liberal than most college campuses. S19 spent a good amount of time with young alums from both schools (alums in their early 20s) and they were not hippies in the least. Both had corporate jobs and were very bright and mainstream.

1 Like
12

While we know students from Carleton and Hamilton – all of whom loved their experience – Grinnell is the only school we have direct experience with as both my kids visited, did overnights, and one was a recruited athlete there.

What my kids (and us grown ups) loved about Grinnell was the range of students, and that everyone seemed to mix and mingle and get along, there were not “silos” of kids. For example, when my recruited athlete had meal with team, unlike most schools where that really was just with teammates, at Grinnell, it was the team plus a whole bunch of other students, who ranged from blue hair to Polo shirts. And everyone seemed to enjoy each other. Both my kids really enjoyed the culture at Grinnell, and the classes they sat in on. Town had its charms – no better or worse than, for ex., Oberlin, Ohio, in that it has the basics a college student needs – excellent grocery with lots of interesting beers, organic foods, prepared foods etc., plus pizza shops, doughnut shop, bike shop, independent movie theater etc. My kids liked that there was a single dining hall at Grinnell, so that everyone passed through there at some point, and the food was really good. I can’t compare it to the other choices, but Grinnell is a wonderful community, with deep resources, a commitment to socio-economic, racial and ethnic diversity, and unusually good sciences for a LAC. Plus, both kids liked the flexible curriculum which meant – for my non-STEMy kids – no one would force them to take more math/science if they didn’t want to. (Of course, they both wound up at schools with more distribution requirements and had to take math AND science). My spouse and I agree, if only we had a 3rd child, maybe that one would have finally chosen Grinnell!

13

From College Navigator:

SES:

Hamilton: 18% Pell, 38% no grants/scholarships
Carleton: 13% Pell, 42% no grants/scholarships
Grinnell: 17% Pell, 15% no grants/scholarships

I.e. all are quite underrepresented for the lower half income/wealth (Pell), but Grinnell is less overrepresented for the top 5% (no grants/scholarships).

Race/ethnicity:

Hamilton: 63% white, 7% international, 9% Latino, 7% Asian, 4% black
Carleton: 60% white, 11% international, 8% Asian, 8% Latino, 5% black
Grinnell: 50% white, 19% international, 8% Asian, 7% Latino, 5% black

14

Thank you to everyone who has responded so far! Helpful to hear multiple perspectives.
@homerdog Did your S19 end up picking one of these schools? Do you mind sharing why or why not?

15

@ilovemybed222 He is at Bowdoin. We didn’t visit Hamilton before he applied. He was accepted to seven schools he did visit so he decided to narrow his choices down to those he saw before applying. He’s a sporty and artsy kid and felt most at home at Bowdoin. We live in the Midwest and he was looking to get away for college. He definitely thought he could have had a great academic experience at Carleton or Grinnell but was swayed by the friendly, bright kids at Bowdoin and the beauty of Maine and the ocean.

He did think the town had more to offer at Carleton and he liked that it was close to Minneapolis. Grinnell is even more of a bubble with very little going on in the town. But that bubble is pretty awesome. Grinnell has a ton of money and is very supportive of whatever a student wants to do on campus. We felt, too, like fewer kids went into the work force from Grinnell. It’s seemed great for kids who wanted to go to grad school or med school but their career services seemed more lacking than Carleton’s where more companies seemed to visit, etc. S19 isn’t planning grad school and Bowdoin has a strong record of job placement after graduation so that was also a pull for him.

16

If you don’t want to start in January, I think Carleton fits you better. I just reread your opening post and there’s more to do in the “outdoors” at Carleton. That’s really not a thing in rural Iowa. I think there’s probably more options for someone interested in politics at Carleton since it’s fairly close to Minneapolis. Political science is not one of the bigger majors at Grinnell.

17

@homerdog Very fair points. Thanks!

So I think what’s great about all three schools in terms of the outdoors is they have land preserves open for research and student use. Carleton has the 800 acre arb, Grinnell has their 500 acre CERA prairie, and Hamilton has the 8 miles of Glenns and trails. All three schools have big outdoor clubs, too…but since I love alpine skiing, I’m somewhat swayed by ice coast (if you know what I mean there). I think Ham may win in that dept. in terms of fit for me since there also are different ski resorts nearby-ish…

But I do really like the accessibility to the Twin Cities for Carleton for internships, connections, and what have you (I also like how it is much close to home, being from the midwest).

and @ucbalumnus would you think it is fair to assume international populations will decrease due to COVID-19?

18

Due to travel difficulties, it would not be surprising if international student populations fall.

19

With respect to your interest in natural features, Hamilton’s Root Glen is home to a Norway spruce that has received national recognition:

https://www.nytimes.com/1996/09/26/nyregion/new-york-has-top-norway-spruce.html

If you are not sure how to picture Hamilton’s natural areas, they connect to its central campus, and can be used for walking, running, nordic skiing, or relaxing on a daily basis.

For alpine skiing, New York has more ski resorts than any other state, and is a two-time Winter Olympics site. For off-campus hiking, Hamilton’s outing club sponsors activities such as 46 Peaks Weekend:

http://dailyorange.com/2015/10/hamilton-college-students-climb-all-46-mountain-peaks-in-the-adirondacks/

20

Three terrific choices. Although Hamilton’s Jan start may be intriguing, I think it is not ideal, especially in current environment. I suspect Grinnell may have a bit of an “off” year for yield due to its reliance on internationals. Carleton’s trimester calendar does not start until mid-September, which may be an advantage in these strange times. I believe Carleton graduates more psychology majors than either Hamilton or Grinnell. Finally, I agree with the post above the Carleton is going to connect you with the outdoors more than Grinnell. All considered, I think Carleton makes a strong case to be your top pick–although net financial cost to OP should be considered.