^^^^^
“And yet the Hamilton campus looks so compact on [the] campus map.”
This comment reminds me of a Picasso anecdote:
Somebody was saying to Picasso that he ought to make pictures of things the way they are – objective pictures. He mumbled that he wasn’t quite sure what that would be. The person who was bullying him produced a photograph of his wife from his wallet and said, “There, that is a picture of how she really is.” Picasso looked at it and said, “She is rather small, isn’t she? And flat?”
I’m with swampdraggin. Took three unique types of kids to visit Hamilton and Colgate and found them extremely different in vibe. Our touring kids found both campuses beautiful, the sophmore job fair at Colgate very impressive, the info session and tour at Hamilton fantastic and thorough, etc., but here’s where it got interesting: all three came away independently turned of by the attitudes (airs) of kids we encountered at Colgate and attempted to engage or ask questions of. Could have been just a random sampling or “off” couple of days at the school, but it was enough to leave us genuinely wondering about the greater student body and whether a nice, down-to-earth kid would thrive there. (I don’t mean that sarcastically - I am being sincere.) I definitely didn’t appreciate the Colgate tour guide scoffing at a mother’s question comparing the two schools (has to be a common question given geographics alone) and his reply that he knew “nothing” about Hamilton but was sure Colgate was more exciting. He said that he would not have applied to Hamilton (but since he also said he knew nothing about it, we found that a strange offering). This fellow was unfortunately negative and uninformed about a few things on tour (even said the food wasn’t very good - points for honesty, at least) so perhaps not fair to hold him up as a factor in crossing the school off lists. Still, FWIW, the Hamilton guide’s response to a similar question was “Both are excellent schools - you should visit Colgate, consider your interests and see how both feel to you and how each could meet your needs.” Nice.
I have no horse in this race - just noting the palpable differences we experienced. And I’ve now been on nearly two dozen school tours so have some basis for comparison. I will say, markham: I just started poking about CC again with Child #2 and have seen you pop up on random threads of other schools, too, showcasing and defending Colgate and hyping its new facilities, etc. Some of the input is valuable and I get your rabid loyalty and excitement for your alma mater - good for you. But, with respect, some of this reads like a jarring disruption/injection-of-two-cents and at times a gratuitous stirring of the pot aimed at inciting argument. My goodness! I am not so sure that kind of PR is ultimately helpful to Colgate.
As I said in post 12, I don’t mean to cause offense. I simply want to point out all that Colgate has with its beautiful campus and its relatively large campus feel and the projects coming on stream now for delivery in 2016.
Hamilton impresses in a different manner, as anyone visiting there can see. I did recommend that readers of the thread take the 25-30 minute drive to find what it offers.
About the tour guide not having much to say about Hamilton, I remember applying to Colgate when I had no interest in applying to Hamilton. Partly it was the size- 1000 fewer students and 100 fewer faculty- and the D III athletics scene which could not deliver what I was seeking for 4 years at a rural, residential campus. That seems a reasonable consideration- the campus vibe- and I wonder why you says it’s a “strange offering” when the tour guide mentioned his personal opinion.
I’ve also read some of your other posts, @markham, and have seen that, even when challenged, you comment civily. Of course we all should, but even in an anonymous forum, reactions can become excessive. And as I implied in post #17 (in response to post #16), I think the word “argue” was prematurely interjected into what had been a discussion, however robust it may have been.
As for your general feelings about Hamilton vs. Colgate, I tend to agree. There may be a fair amount of prospective applicants who are strongly drawn to the style of education of one of the schools, but less so to the other’s, and who therefore may never seriously consider the other college. And even in those cases, a visit to both colleges may still be worthwhile.
I should add that the close proximity of Colgate and Hamilton, with their membership in the New York 6 Liberal Arts Consortium, affords opportunities to those interested in certain activities sponsored by them. Google this to learn more.
And for everyone, good luck with your college searches!
@markham, re our Colgate tour guide, no need for armchair speculation or an attempt to recast how this actually went down. I was there, heard the comments and slight-but-sure denigration of Hamilton, the snotty tone, delivery, and context, the rest of the lad’s negatvity, and other sour bits and pieces. This was not about informed “personal opinion.” And then I watched three separate wide-eyed teens say, “Wow, that was immature/disingenuous/snarky” and leave with a crummy feeling about a fine school we had truly believed, going in, would fall among the top 3 favorites of the many visited. In fact, other friends toured and encountered the same vibe and gratuitous slighting of Hamilton (and Bates and Bucknell and Colby!). Again, I have no horse in this race. My feedback consists of firsthand experience meant to be helpful to the OP, others – and even Colgate, i.e., in saying: “Hey, perhaps you all might want to pow wow to better inform your guides and go over a few things. You’re unnecessarily turning kids off during these tours.” I realize you don’t want to hear anything questioning or negative about the alma mater you love. That’s admirable enough. But I genuinely care about issues of higher ed, too, and am also plain curious about why a number of people are coming away with the same uneasy feeling about a reputable school with beautiful campus and so many other positives.
@merc81, that was gallant but this is a more cumulative/general calling out and if you had seen the comments I have elsewhere, taken together I suspect you wouldn’t interject to blanketly characterize it as a model of civility. This particular thread is mild enough on its own but the overall pattern is troubling and it is fair to speak up (as others have) and beg for some reflection and restraint. Anyhow, the written record speaks for itself. And, hey, nothing personal. Merely trying to keep things honest here and, yes, civil. That was the whole point.
@Valdog: Hey, we got Markham to say, “Hamilton impresses in a different manner.” That’s a lot of progress for one thread.
I do respect the honestly and detail with which you recounted your experiences. Your stories were interesting to read through – and so consequentially unfortunate in regards to your impression of Colgate. But that was your point.
Narrowing my comments to this thread only, I did feel there were periodic calls for accountability, yours among them, which had the positive effect of limiting hyperbole. So in that sense at least, this thread has been a level playing field, with all viewpoints ultimately represented.
Of course no one would condone gratuitous condescension towards other colleges when attending a college tour. I wonder why you would want to suggest otherwise.
And I trust that should anyone encounter such rudeness he/she might make the point known to an admissions officer so that the slight might be addressed- for everyone’s benefit.
@Valdog - I’m thinking about visiting Colgate in the next two weeks and you comments have provided a lot of food for thought. Thank you.
On the other hand, I find the comment above, specifically the first two sentences, as a weak attempt to obfuscate the points you brought up. I second an earlier comment of yours regarding posts like the one above not being helpful to the school that is purportedly being “defended”.